Episode 14 – ‘Your own brand of courage’ with Elizabeth and Andrew Gough

MIND BEYOND THE MISSION EPISODE 14: YOUR OWN BRAND OF COURAGE WITH ELIZABETH AND ANDREW GOUGH

Brian

Here we go with another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission. We are joined today by Andrew and Elizabeth Gough and we’re going to be speaking a little bit about the experience of military Families that come from the Canadian Forces Reserves. When you’re looking at the Reserves, there’s a lot of things in that. The cadet instructors are part of that, the Rangers are part of that, the Comms Reserve is its own thing, and also Army, Navy, and Air Force.

That’s the topic today and things are a little different out there. We’ll start off with that, and Laryssa, you spent a number of years married to a Regular Force person, and probably in this job have you started to learn a couple of more things about life as a Reservist and a Reservist Family?

Laryssa

Yes, I think just a drip in the bucket is what I’m going to say. I did provide peer support to Reservist Families. I used to work at an MFRC way back in the day and actually was really quite involved with the Reserve unit in that area at that time, but as far as it goes to supporting someone with mental health injuries and what Reservists go through that aspect, their access to support, I think it’s quite different. We are really excited to be joined by two guests today who are going to take us a little bit on their journey.

I’m going to start off by introducing them a bit. First, I want to say that I’ve stolen a phrase that’s been shared by one of my colleagues at Atlas because it resonated with me so much. It was that military and Veteran Families have their own brand of courage. Our first guest today certainly possesses her own brand of courage, and from what I know of her so far, quietly and humbly.

Elizabeth Gough is a professional in the human services sector, a dedicated volunteer, a leader, a mom, an advocate and a Veteran Family member. Elizabeth Gough is an experienced professional in the human services sector. Outside of her work life, she’s a dedicated community volunteer and a leader on a number of initiatives. She’s at her husband’s side and his greatest support as they navigate his own journey with mental health, while both working to help Veterans and everyday heroes.

Andrew Gough is a Canadian Armed Forces Veteran, serving Reservist and a medically retired police officer. In 2019, he took part in a campaign with his police service that challenged the stigma of mental health challenges. The ‘Stronger than you know’ campaign shared his and other stories of mental health struggles to combat the idea that these challenges are a sign of weakness. He and Elizabeth continue to advocate together and we’ll learn a little bit more about that for mental health awareness for Veterans and Families. Thanks for joining us, Elizabeth and Andrew.

Andrew

I appreciate you having us here.

Elizabeth

Yes, thanks for inviting us.

Brian

Some of these things start off really basic. I think back to deploying overseas, for example, you might get told, “Well, I’ll just pop down into the MFRC.” Well, the Military Family Resource Centre is on a base, on a Regular Force base. There are no Reserve bases for that matter. There’s normally armories or other locations throughout the country that these folks are at. It can start as simple as there, and is that something that you guys went through as well that, “Hey, go see the padre?”

Well, if you’re in Trail BC, if you are in 44 Field Engineer Squadron, the closest padre would be in Calgary and that’s not even in their brigade. They would be expected to go to Vancouver or Edmonton. That’s one of the things that happens to a lot of Reserves. Maybe we’ll start there. Just about how the rules and the policies don’t seem to be written for Reservists. Is that something you went through, Andrew?

Andrew

When it was time for us to deploy, and I say yes because Elizabeth is as much a partner in that decision, I would say that there wasn’t a whole lot presented or available, not that it didn’t exist. That might have been my own, I’ll say, fault, for lack of a better word because I’m not sure at the time I felt that we as a Family even needed anything extra, or that we weren’t supported and that we didn’t have everything that would be required for Elizabeth and her two children when I left.

We did have a network of friends, our Family lives close by, and we did have some help when I was gone, but it was all self-guided. I don’t recall other than maybe some close friends within the platoon even reaching out to Elizabeth. Certainly not anybody of any rank or consequence, and that even continued once I returned home. When you return home, you’re supposed to have a debrief with your commanding officer and RSM. I returned in August, and my debrief with my CO didn’t even occur until February. That was 2014.

I want to hope that things got a lot better, and I know when I was the platoon commander, I made it a point to do what I could so that my soldiers didn’t have to go through that. The MFRCs existed. I know Elizabeth was on a mailing list, I believe, and she can speak to it. There may have been some involvement while I was gone, but it was certainly not what likely someone in the Regular Force would have received.

Elizabeth

Yes, I would agree with that for sure. I always felt like we were on the periphery of active connection and participation as a Reservist Family. We had great experiences with our MFRC, and the number one benefit for us was developing that deep sense of belonging was in the military community as a result of participating with the Military Family Resource Centre. We only attended events a couple of times a year, so it was difficult because we didn’t live in the same community where the MFRC existed as you spoke to, Brian, but at least it was an open door.

If I had questions about anything, especially when Andrew was away, I knew I could call them or email them for support. In general, there was support, but beyond that, I didn’t really know about any other supports or resources for me or the Family. In a Reservist situation, there isn’t that tight connection. Could it be better? Absolutely. Given my professional life in human services, I’m confident in navigating systems, but I didn’t know exactly what fell into my scope as a Reservist spouse. What was right for successful versus what could I access? I had no idea, so kind of going into that blindly.

Laryssa

It sounds like you relied a lot on your Family and maybe neighbourhood community members and stuff like that during the tour. One thing that I’ve observed and I’m assuming for Reservist Families is that you might be a one of in your community or in your group of friends. Your spouse is deployed and you’re dealing with all the stressors of that, plus raising kids and working, but there’s not really anyone just outside your door, someone you could just pick up the phone and call who gets it exactly, who understands what you’re going through.

Is that something that you felt at the time that you wish that there was someone there that understood that exact experience, or was it you were just going through day to day and getting things done? Maybe it wasn’t a factor for you at all, but I just wonder if you could speak to that a little bit.

Elizabeth

I don’t know if I ever really thought about that to be honest because I was always connected through Andrew’s policing community as well. I had that to buffer and build some resiliency through connection. Of course, yes, like Andrew had mentioned, we were very close to our Family, so always had that for support. Honestly, truthfully, I didn’t really think about that until Andrew deployed. Then I went, “Okay, Andrew’s not here. He usually navigates some of this stuff for me, so where do I go?”

The MFRC became a central point of connection if I had questions, but that was my only sense of connection really. Andrew mentioned too, he had some of his command team reach out once in a while or some people from his platoon. There was slight connection there, but certainly not a deep relationship because we didn’t connect and hang out with these people on a regular basis. I only saw them a couple of times a year myself.

Brian

I think level setting what the Reserve experience is for Canadians and others that might be listening to this, the Canadian military is small. A lot of time because a lot of movies and TV shows are made based on the American system that a lot of Canadians will actually believe our system is like theirs. They’ll know more about the American military than they will about the Canadian. I think one thing that’s important to understand is there is no National Guard per se up in Canada. You don’t have entire units in an inactive status, and then they’re brought active as they are in America.

What tends to happen in Canada is a Regular Force battalion or organization of some sort from the regular military gets sent somewhere and its holes or it’s empty positions or extra spots that need to be added onto that mission get filled at an individual level by Reservists. Bob and Sue go and plug holes, not entire regiments going and plugging holes to that degree.

It’s also true that a lot of times, specifically for missions to the former Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, about a quarter of what we sent overseas were Reserves. It was entirely possible that 800, 900 of the 3000 people that we were sending out the door were Reserves. It’s a massive commitment to backfill all those holes. I guess the last bit of data I’d put out there is that not all of the Reserve is part-time. Almost a third of it is on full-time positions that’s back in Canada.

They’re at your recruiting centers, they’re at your training schools, they’re backfilling positions at headquarters and command of bases and installations. There’s all kinds of people that are in a bit of a mixed bag of employment. In the background here, every time someone like Andrew puts up his hand to go do something, he’s often putting his civilian job at risk. I think it’s also worth talking about here, a six-month deployment for a Reservist is not six months. All the workup training, which can be almost six months itself gets added onto that. For a lot of Reserve Families, it’s almost a whole calendar year. How’d that go in the Gough household?

Andrew

The mission I put my hand up for, that was one that was actually fairly swift to kick off. My workup training was only a couple of months versus six. The deployment was to be four to five months, notwithstanding the fact that we were not able to get out on time because of infrastructure and the geopolitical state in that country. That was definitely a concern for me. I was supposed to be home on a certain date, and we couldn’t get home, and I very seriously was worried about my job.

Not so much that I wouldn’t have one to go home to, but I had ambitions. I was looking to do different things, possibly a promotion, and I was worried that my involvement in that would stunt that. It was a long time regardless, and of course, we’re dealing with other things as well when it comes to employment, like salary. I was a sergeant at the time. There’s a lot of other considerations, including finances, that come into play when you’re trying to raise a Family on an income that they’re used to, and now all of a sudden, it’s being diminished.

It was, from start to finish, 9 or 10 months of being away from my job, putting my career on hold. Often people don’t recognize that when it comes to Reservists that they’ve given up a good chunk of their life, both their Family of course, which is primary, but also professionally. That can take a long time to recover from.

Brian

A lot of times, we’ll hear the term PTSD when we’re getting a mental health briefing or you’re doing a leadership course to some degree, but for some of us, there’s a moment where it’s one-on-one, you and a doctor and they’re reading off a diagnosis for you. PTSD, what do those letters sound like when it’s a one-on-one conversation, Andrew?

Andrew

I think I knew deep down, and being a police officer, my experiences on deployment, they were just the spark that lit the fuse to a big powder keg of terrible things. I had experienced as a police officer some pretty terrible calls, human suffering, threats to my own life. Then being deployed and seeing and experiencing those things as well on a different level is what ignited it all inside me when I got home. I certainly took a long time to do anything about it because there was some denial. When I did go to the medical officer because that was my choice, I kept it within the military at first because honestly, I felt that they were leaps and bounds more understanding and more supportive of operational stress injuries or PTSD than the police service, as sad as that is because when I say leaps and bounds, that’s not a big measure.

When the doctor there had said, “It’s my opinion that you have posttraumatic stress disorder. I want you to know that I believe everything you’re saying, and we’re going to get you help,” that was a massive kick to the guts. As I mentioned before, I had ambitions. I wanted to do certain things in both my careers. I can tell you now that I am at the end of that. I certainly haven’t met those expectations for myself.

Laryssa

Elizabeth, Andrew is talking about, he felt that he knew for a long time. I appreciate your honesty, Andrew, in saying you might’ve been in denial for some time. What was happening for you during that, Elizabeth? I’m going to guess that wasn’t a secret for you either. Yes, what was happening for you in that kind of parallel process with Andrew?

Elizabeth

I did not notice shifts in Andrew for a very long time. I think that the culture and what I believed I had to accept as part of the role as a first responder spouse-

Laryssa

Interesting.

Elizabeth

-really clouded my acknowledgment of this for a very long time that there was any real sense of deep problem for us. It wasn’t until Andrew mentioned he returned from his tour in Libya that the cracks started to widen to the point that we just couldn’t ignore them anymore. I sucked it up for a long time because I felt like this is what I’ve signed up for, this is my reality, and Andrew was sacrificing so much to support the Family. That’s really how I rationalized it for a lot of years. Then, when he came back from tour, the accumulation of his trauma really became apparent.

Brian

It’s interesting too because you’re talking about things that you experienced from the military side and also from your day job. It’s a rough go on both sides of that. Do you have a sense of where Soldier Andrew ends and Police Officer Andrew begins, or does it all match together and does it matter?

Andrew

I don’t know if I could separate myself into two separate parts when it comes to that. I began my career as a Reserve soldier at the age of 19. I had just turned 19, and I began my position as a police cadet with the London Police Service also at the age of 19, almost 20. I was a few days away from being 20. I experienced both of those things concurrently. There’s only a six-month separation where I was a soldier and not a police officer.

Yes, I only deployed in 2014 as my first deployment. However, the experiences bled into my life as a soldier in the decisions I was making as I was cutting myself every day I went to work. Every trauma I experienced, I describe as a cut or eventually accumulating to that death by a thousand cuts. It was the eventual experiences that I had in North Africa that opened those wounds.

Brian

Elizabeth, just imagining a scenario here. Andrew comes home and you can sense something. You can tell that today is just not one of those good days. What would it be that you’re looking at, that you’re hearing, that you’re noticing? What do you notice when you are aware that he’s suffering?

Elizabeth

Oh, my gosh, when he came back from tour, it was a honeymoon, we describe it. It was joyous, celebratory until it wasn’t anymore. Andrew was having nightmares and panic attacks. He mentioned it was a different reality for him when he returned back to civil society in Canada. He still can’t go to the grocery store really to buy anything. He just can’t make it, a simple decision like that, which is ironic given the high level of decisions he used to have to make on a regular basis with his careers.

His drinking was getting worse when he got back. His pain was debilitating, and it just seemed like nothing we could do was really going to make him happy. When I know he’s home and he’s having a rough day, you can just tell where things start to retrogress for him. There’s lots of good days, don’t get me wrong, lots of positive days, but it’s certainly easy to tell when he’s having a rough go.

Laryssa

In those rough goes, in that moment, did you understand that it was trauma and a result of Andrew’s experience? Did you think it was a reflection of your relationship? How were you processing it?

Elizabeth

No, I don’t think it was ever considered it to be a reflection of our relationship, ever. I knew it was related to the work that he was doing. Of course, I didn’t appreciate how it felt as a spouse, as a protector of my kids, all of that, but I knew it wasn’t a reflection of us.

Brian

For me, one thing I had to learn to do was to stop ignoring the signs. When I ignored those signs, then it was like this traditional path of ramping up, you could set your watch to it almost. Generally, now, I notice when I start looking at people’s hands and wondering what’s in each purse or backpack, and I just start becoming overly curious of what’s around me, it’s no longer curiosity. That’s hyper-awareness, hypervigilance.

If I ignore that, I’ll start to become obsessed with what’s behind me. If I ignore that, then my neck’s going to get hot, and I’ll feel it in my wrists, and I’ll feel pressure in my chest and then probably at its worst, my guts will tell me like, “You’re not ignoring this anymore, my friend.” That’s how it ramps up when I’m ignoring it. Andrew, if you weren’t paying attention to your symptoms, do they snowball like that? Is there an initial warning and then it ramps up? How does that play out for you?

Andrew

I would say that only recently, despite having this for a number of years, have I really truly started to pay attention to my mind and body. I had no ability to really control that or understand that, and that’s why I ended up seeking out the use of a service dog as a medical device. He did all that for me. He continues to do some of that for me. Although now doing the work, going to the OSI clinics, having been to some in-treatment facilities, trying things like ketamine, with clinical backing, you’re building that education as you move forward in your journey, am I much more aware of what my body is doing and learning from that.

Even now, as you are aware, I’m not back home in Ontario. I’ve gone to sunny Florida to try to take care of some of what I feel that I’m missing when I’m back home, especially during the winter, but I’m also aware that decision is a trauma response. I am here as a bit of that flight, in that flight or freeze, to try to be by myself, in order to work on myself. I’m finding as I am here, actually, sometimes it’s worse.

I am reflecting on what’s most important to me when I am back home and missing all of those things while I’m here. It’s almost like taking your first steps again. I felt that I was very much in control and very much aware of what I was thinking, feeling, and doing pre-mental health injury, but remembering I started so young. I’m not sure that I honestly do know that much about myself, and I learn every day, but there is certainly a buildup, a physical and mental buildup of symptoms when I am exposed to certain threats or perceived threats. I am finally starting to understand that, but that puts artificial and real limits on what I feel like I can accomplish.

Brian

In this journey you’re on, I’ve walked some of the path myself and I think there’s always regrets, and, “Could have done this better, should have done that differently.” Is there an aspect of it though that you’re proud of, that you guys can look at and go, “We handled that part of this correctly.”?

Elizabeth

I think that the thing that we’re most proud of is developing grit, like this deep sense of belief that you can do hard things, and then doing those hard things. Being a spouse of a first responder, whether you naturally have grit or you find yourself developing, it’s something to be very, very proud of. In our darkest moments, that required a lot of grit, have become our greatest gifts. At the time, looking back, I wouldn’t have thought that, but in hindsight, we grew through those hard things and came out more resilient.

Andrew

I think that when you have been together as long as Elizabeth and I have, we met when we were 18.

Brian

Wow.

Andrew

Yes, we’ve been together a minute.

Elizabeth

Our whole lives.

Andrew

I think that we believe in each other and our love is deep enough that it wasn’t easy to give up on each other because it is. It can be very easy to give up on somebody really. “I’m out of here. I’ve had enough of you. You’re not fulfilling my needs. You’re making me emotionally distressed all the time and off we go.” That unfortunately happens to way too many first responder and military Families, but for us, there was such a deep-rooted love and history that our decision was to make it work. I would say that Elizabeth gave 80% of that and I myself 20%. Thank goodness.

Elizabeth

We make that commitment each and every day. You’re right, it could have been something quite easily we could have just walked away from and said, “That’s it. We’re just done. We’ve had enough. It’s too much heartache,” but I think it’s really about unconditional love. Really where it started, Andrew said it was so many years ago that we were together before careers got off the ground. We had that really solid foundation before his OSI took hold, and we just consciously make that choice.

Laryssa

I was picking up on that when you were talking about, “We knew right from the beginning it wasn’t a reflection of our relationship what was going on. It was something else.” That speaks to your connection and it sounds as if the two of you have been on this journey together, so wanted to chat with you both a little bit more about the advocacy side of things.

I know, Andrew, you’ve been an advocate for mental health for first responders, military, and Veterans, and Elizabeth, you’re beside him. You’re there together on that journey. The two of you have been doing more public speaking around your experiences as a couple, which I don’t think we hear often enough. We hear from the Veteran side of things or the first responder side, and we might hear from the Family, but not in conjunction. Yes, I would love to hear a little bit more about how that came about, that the two of you are sharing your experiences.

Andrew

I would say that’s a little bit my fault.

Elizabeth

Indeed.

Andrew

Yes, you’re right. After I started my not-for-profit and was very open about having an OSI, especially with having a service dog, he ended up making waves. He’s a handsome little guy, and people are very much aware of him. I would be asked to do talks and presentations. At one point, someone had asked if Elizabeth would be willing to talk and I said, “Yes.” She wasn’t in the room and wasn’t able to say no, but it was important for me.

When they asked, I was like, “Do you know how amazing that is? That someone even cares to hear from my spouse.” Because Elizabeth is such a powerful and strong person, I knew that if she was able to talk about her journey so openly, that it would likely help others that were experiencing someone like me in their life and maybe even inspire them.

Brian

One of the themes that I bring up in my work a lot is the concept of being healthy enough to help. Lived experience is critical. We want people that have walked in the path. We want people that have bumped and grinded, developed grit as you called it, Elizabeth, which is exactly what it is. Along with that comes risk. When other soldiers start telling me their stories, those will relate very closely to a lot of mine, they can trigger me. Or I could say yes yesterday to sitting down and having a coffee, but today, now that I’m doing it, maybe I can’t do that.

Gauging whether we ourselves are at that moment healthy enough to help someone else, it’s not all that easy. What are your thoughts on that, Andrew? As you try to help others, as you advocate for others, as you educate others about what happened to you, so they can learn from it, how do you make that assessment of whether you can do that today?

Andrew

I can’t always do it, but I do because every second of it is worth it to me. I wish that I had someone like me in my life when I was going through the infancy of it that I knew would listen. I don’t always have a solution and I will admit that that is often what causes me the most distress when there is somebody that needs help and I can’t, whether it be, I don’t have the experience. I’m not a clinician, I just have lived experience, and I don’t always have the money either.

That is honestly often my biggest hurdle is when people come to me as a service gap organization, I just can’t afford to do it for them. It hurts in a different way, but as I said, every second of it is worth it to try to be there for somebody else who is where I was or continues to need support.

Brian

That example you’re talking about, I think, is so critical. There was a paratrooper in a unit I first joined that had served in Medak Pocket. When he put up his hand to go get mental health care for himself, suddenly the joke stopped. Suddenly it was more acceptable for other people to do the same thing.

He may not know it, but that example he set by being willing to let people know, not just get healthier, but let people know that he was seeking help, let them know that he had a problem, that paved the way for me and opened doors for me and made my life easier as I needed to reach out for help. I don’t know if I could have done that if I didn’t see that he would be okay once he’d done it. I think that example is so critical.

Andrew

I know that’s happening and I’m grateful for it. It’s one of the reasons I keep doing it because I hear from peers and even peers of peers, people that I’ve never met that have tuned into podcasts such as this or watched what is available out there that either myself or Elizabeth and I have done, and said that it has helped them. I know as a platoon commander, I have had troops come to me, and I don’t think that they would’ve otherwise, and they would’ve suffered in silence because they know I’m a safe place to go.

I’m not going to judge them. That’s what we all need because you don’t have to have an OSI, mental health is health. It could be as simple as they’re having difficulty with a parent at home, a sick child that affects us all, and it isn’t an OSI. If we’re able to mitigate some of those issues at the beginning, it’ll only help us further deliver mental wellness to them as they grow in their career, and they will experience those things because if you’re a soldier emergency responder, it’s not a matter of if you’re going to experience something that shatters your perception of this world, it’s when, so let’s be there for them right from the start.

Brian

Speaking of some of the themes that Laryssa and I are constantly talking about at our work, there’s the situation with Andrew. There’s Elizabeth’s support of Andrew as he seeks help, as he seeks health and gets better, but often in that, we miss how Elizabeth is doing. The individual that she is herself. Let’s go there. How are you?

Elizabeth

I have great days actually, to be quite honest. This has been quite a healing journey, Andrew asking me if I would first step up to the plate to deliver my own experience as a story. That was a really hard experience to do that, but for me, it’s been a positive journey of just reflection and trying to come to terms with how did we get to where we are. For me too, to be asked how I’m doing, that’s significant, and I want to say thank you for that because I don’t think that people ask spouses very often how they’re doing.

When I reflect on the first time that anyone ever asked me that question, we were away at the couples overcoming PTSD everyday residential program, and I went into it very reluctantly, not really sure how this is going to work with us, sharing in a group context. The very first moment where somebody asked me, “How are you doing?” Just the floodgates open because nobody had ever asked that, and I hadn’t even thought about that. I just thought, “This is about Andrew and what he’s going through,” and I never took the time to really reflect on how it was affecting me, how it’s affecting our Family, how it’s affecting the children.

Laryssa

Elizabeth, what would you want to pass on to other Reserve Families when you have opportunities for speaking engagements? What’s your main message that you’re hoping to get across to folks and what are you hoping to share with other Reserve Families?

Elizabeth

I think it’s important to remind folks that you’re not alone. You can reach out to whatever door you might find open for support, whether it’s a Family Resource Centre, other military spouses, your Family, whatever you feel would build resilience for you. I found it interesting when I started getting involved in all this advocacy and speaking work. When I came across the Atlas Institute for Veterans and Families, I googled it, and I came across all the stories that are posted on the website. I found that to be fascinating because I didn’t know how to connect with other Families.

I didn’t know what their stories were and how they might relate to my own. I’m going to shamelessly plug the Veteran Family Virtual Conference because I think it’s important to know that these things exist. If you’re interested in attending, you can look at their website and see how you can register, and if you happen to be listening to this after the virtual summit is concluded, it is an annual event, so you can search for that and learn about the next one. I think it’s important to remember to take care of yourself, to know when to have grit, when to have grace.

Laryssa

I love that. Thank you for plugging the Summit. That’s awesome.

Brian

The Summit’s an interesting thing to speak about. First of all, it’s an outstanding MC that they’ve picked this year. Good looking guy. Highly capable. On top of that, we talked about this a while ago. The reason we haven’t built a Veteran version of one is there are Veteran summits. It was actually shocking to me that there wasn’t a Family summit out there. When they first started talking about it, we were thinking, “Well, which one out there should we model it after? Which one out there should we even maybe beg, borrow, and steal some good ideas?”

There weren’t any. It’s absolutely necessary that it exists and we’re going to keep working at it. One of the things I want to wrap up with here, Andrew, is that for me, there was a 10-day program run out on the West Coast that I attended, and that really, really helped me out a lot. Then I’d say the next thing that really helped me out is a path very similar to yours.

I credit a lot of my health and my ability to work and function to a service dog that I had for eight years. She’s passed away a number of years back, which was exceptionally rough. That dog got me off my couch. That dog got me out socializing, talking to people. Not too many things tear me up, but thinking about what that animal– who probably only thought that she was playing, but what that animal brought to my life and actually brought back to my life, reinvigorated things that I thought were dead.

It was a remarkable process for me. Again, that 10-day program helped me, the dog program helped. What helped you? What were the things that you engaged in that you would say, “That worked, that helped me move forward.”?

Andrew

Certainly similar experiences to your own. I was encouraged by a friend who had experienced a residential program. It was not quite as long, but it was fairly intense. That is what kicked off the exposure to the education of what an OSI was and what I experienced or what I was experiencing was similar to others in my professions. It was Veterans and first responders in the same program. I was able to cross-pollinate and go, “Well, as a police officer, I was experiencing that.”

You as a firefighter were experiencing that, and you as a career soldier were experiencing that. At that time, that’s what led me to feel that a service dog would help me because there were two Veterans there that had service dogs. I believe that Riggs has helped me more than I will ever understand. He’s a pain in the butt sometimes. It takes a lot of extra preparation. Even today, I had to call a place because I’m going to go see a concert, but I was like, “Where can a dog go?”

The world really isn’t set up for people with service dogs. I will place my hand on my heart and say, as much as the world says that they are, there’s not a lot of consideration for me and people like me. That’s part of my advocacy as well, is how can we make the world better navigated with those with dogs. I’ve also started to place more emphasis on physical fitness. That is a huge contributor to my wellness as well as groups. Nothing super formal for me. I’m not much into the formal side of groups, but being around peers and having the opportunity to share experiences in a non-threatening and safe place.

Brian

We’ve been joined here today by Elizabeth and Andrew Gough. I want to thank you both for, well, joining us today obviously, but for the work you guys are doing to get, make sure that you’re healthy enough to help and that there’s a voice out there for Reservist Families. Also want people– while they’re hearing this, there’s certainly a mental health message, but there’s also just the idea of educating the country as to the contribution they get from Reserves and Reserve Families all across this country. Whether it’s the Rangers in the North, whether it’s deployments, whether it’s domestic operations, it doesn’t work if the Reserves aren’t there.

I hope people can pick that up as well. Elizabeth, Andrew, thank you very much, and this has been yet again another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission.