Episode 23 – Navigating the impacts of military sexual trauma with Telah Morrison

MIND BEYOND THE MISSION EPISODE 23: NAVIGATING THE IMPACTS OF MILITARY SEXUAL TRAUMA WITH TELAH MORRISON

Brian

You found our podcast, we are Mind Beyond the Mission. This is a podcast about Veterans and their Families, and specifically, mental health. What goes on in our lives, what goes on in our heads. We’re not talking to you as doctors, or professionals, we’re talking to you about living with it, and what it’s like. Brian McKenna, 19 years in the Canadian Forces. I’m joined by my partner Laryssa Lamrock.

Laryssa

Veteran Family member. I’m a proud military brat. My husband served in the military, proud military mom, and we’re really excited about this podcast to delve into issues that are important to the Veteran and Family community.

Brian

Join us, as we talk about mental health from the perspective of Veterans, and their Families.

[music]

Laryssa

We are back for another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission. I just want to mention that today’s episode, we will be talking about military sexual trauma. We’re really pleased to be joined today by Colonel (Ret’d) Telah Morrison, and she has quite an extensive list of accomplishments, but I’m going to give you a few highlights. Telah retired from the Canadian Armed Forces in 2022 after 35 years of service in both Regular and Reserve Force.

She’s the first woman Logistics Officer in the Royal 22nd 3rd Battalion, and the first woman to teach at the infantry school. She’s been to places like Croatia, Haiti, Kabul as the Camp Julian Closure Team Operations Officer, Lebanon in 2006 with Operation Lion, the evacuation of 15,000 Canadians. She’s also been to the embassy in Washington. Back here in Canada, she was the Deputy Director of Transition and Casualty Administration and Director of Military Family Services.

Telah’s been married for 30 years. Her husband also served in the Canadian Armed Forces. She has four sons, and she also achieved and earned four degrees. Three of her children have followed in her footsteps and they are serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, so she is also a Veteran Family member. I don’t know where to start. We just want to really welcome Telah to the episode.

Telah Morrison

Thank you for having me. This is great to be invited to be on the podcast today. I’m really just looking forward to this conversation that we’re going to have.

Brian

We were just talking before we got started about pronunciations and whatnot. There’s “Kah – bol,” “Kah – bool,” and “Kah – bul.”

Telah

I knew it. I knew it.

Brian

It actually took me a number of months there to actually figure out how the Afghans pronounce it. We all pronounce it differently. I learned the hard way. They’re like, it’s all soft-sounding vowels. They would generally say “Kah – bul.”

Telah

Yes. Kabul.

Brian

Like you’re cobbling something together.

Telah

Oh, got it. Okay.

Brian

If that makes sense. I wanted to ask you, because you’ve actually — you served for a long time, but you’ve retired in the largest military community that there is. Ottawa is the biggest base when you think of it that way. I can’t imagine you can work in this town without running into people. If you are walking down the road, or you’re at the airport and someone’s like, you get the Telah tap on your arm or, “Hey, ma’am,” which would probably be more common. Are those generally good experiences when you just have random encounters with people, or is there a little bit of, “Who’s that?”

Telah

I’d say in general, no, they’re good experiences. One of the reasons we wanted to retire in Ottawa was because most of our friends were here and it was where we ended our careers. It was a lot of those Family connections, and military connections, and work connections were here. As you know when you transition, it’s very difficult to integrate back into society.

For us, it was a soft integration by just staying here and keeping those connections. So in general, they’re very good. I mean, there’s the odd person that I don’t necessarily want to see. But most, it’s very positive to run into those encounters. We’re a large group from our graduating class from military college that are in the area, so we get together every year. About 40, 50 get together every year, have a little bit of a summer get-together. That’s been very positive for our transition, my husband and I, to stay and to integrate back into society, so to speak.

Brian

You didn’t go rural, right, or at least extremely rural? My experience with a lot of my colleagues that I can’t find or run into anymore is they’ve gone from growing up in a suburban environment, walking into a recruiting center in, say, New Westminster or Vancouver at the time. Now they live at the end of the logging road. Was there some thought for you and your husband about like, “Okay, we’re in Ottawa, but how much Ottawa do we want?”

Telah

Great question, absolutely. We did even look at homes in the more rural areas of Ottawa. It was something we considered a lot. It came down to when we retired, it was the height of COVID, the housing market was really through the roof. Things we were looking at were really expensive. In the end, we came down to, “Do we need to move?” We started doing the analysis, and we know people that did the rural thing and then they find themselves isolated.

Brian

Yes. There’s no neurologist at the end of the logging road in Hope.

Telah

No. For our own, I’ll say mental health, we enjoy daily walks, daily bikes, going to the gym, those types of things that we like to do in the military. Your gym time, your physical fitness time, that in a rural community or in the middle of nowhere, it’s just tougher to do. In the end, it was an assessment that I think we’re best here.

Laryssa

It sounds like you were saying that connection to community is important. You stay connected to the community in a couple of different ways. You’re retired. I would almost want to use air quotes, but, yes, how important is that connection to stay involved with the community to you, and in your transition and retirement?

Telah

One of the main reasons we wanted to stay in Ottawa was I belong to the Canadian Military Wives Choir.

Brian

Nice.

Telah

That to me was a huge connection coming to Ottawa. It started just a couple of years after we came to Ottawa. I found Ottawa very isolating from a military perspective, unlike other bases, because yes, there’s a lot of people but it’s spread out, and you just feel like a public servant here after a time. It’s just hard to find that military community.

That’s what the choir gave to me because all of a sudden I found all these women that were either spouses or members themselves, and you had that connection. Then during that time, my husband did some time in imposed restriction (IR) in Montreal, and he was deployed for a year to Afghanistan and stuff. They became my sisterhood and my connection, and the people I leaned on when times were getting tough, being a single mom of four.

Brian

You bring up the IR, and for folks out there that don’t really know what that means, imagine that being posted somewhere is not actually worth it for your Family to move. If you’ve got a house in one town, and then two years later, they’re posting you 200 kilometers away. For a lot of serving members, the right option is to say, “We’re not moving, you’re moving, and we’ll see you on weekends,” as a tough call to make.

If anyone’s heard the term, that’s what it is. One of the main things that we wanted to bring you in here to speak about today, is I was really impressed when we talked about how you seem to look at the body of your career as this overall positive thing, to the point that, you’ve got kids now that are going one way and another. They’re wearing a uniform, serving the same country, same crown.

There’s a period of that time where that wasn’t going the way that we promised when we said, “You’re joining the brotherhood, welcome to the Family.” We’re going to go there today, and that is going to be a lot of the nature of this discussion. When I hear the words “MST”, I know what it means, but it’s something that’s happened to other people. I know of people, right?

That’s as close as I am to this context. I look at my time in the military, some bumps and wounds, but as this overall positive experience that I wouldn’t trade away, would you trade it away?

Telah

I would certainly do things differently. We had a pre-conversation about this. When I was at military college, I was sexually assaulted. That impacts you in so many different ways as an individual, but it also had a massive impact on my career. First of all, when the incident happened, I didn’t even report it, because at the time, this was the ’80s.

We were — women were told, basically, to, “Shut up, put up, do what you’re told. Be the gray person. Don’t make waves.” “Women are new to the college. We don’t want women here.” These were all the types of things we heard. The last thing you want to do is say, “Hey, I’ve been sexually assaulted.” Unfortunately, another woman was assaulted by the same guy. She was my roommate.

When I found out about it, I said to her, I said, “Well, maybe we should report it, because this is an issue with this individual.” Then, there was another woman after that. There was three that came forward. We found out afterwards there was others. Just the reporting of that at the time, the chain of command called us liars. They didn’t believe us. It wasn’t until this third girl was attacked by the same individual that they realized, “Oh, maybe this is something.”

That initial reaction from the chain of command, as a young 18-year-old, [chuckles] going into an institution that you always wanted to join. I had been in cadets, and at 12, the only thing I ever wanted to do was join the military, was very difficult when you’re that young. Long story short, we had to go to civilian court, because back then all sexual assault cases went to civilian court. The individual got charged, despite three sexual assaults, the way the court systems worked back then, the individual got charged with harassment, one count. They pled guilty to that. There was a plea deal.

This is, unfortunately, the way some civilian courts worked back then. We had to go to court during exams, so I failed. I failed my exams, and I was released from the military at the time, because I had failed my exams. Well, I failed my exams because I had to do six exams in two days, which I don’t think we’d ask anybody to do that today, let alone, you’re about to go to court over a sexual assault.

There certainly was no support at the time from the chain of command. There was no support. We asked to see psychologists, we asked to see lawyers. Nothing. We were refused all types of support. It was really tough, really tough. Those were, I’ll say, difficult years, but there were also positives. The other men at the college that were my classmates, were my brothers. They wanted to kill the guy. [chuckles]

When they found out about it, like that sisterhood, that protection of your little sister was there, that instinct of most of them to protect. “Watch your six,” right? We hear that a lot in the military to watch your six. I felt that right away with my peers when they found out about it.

Laryssa

I just admire the strength of character that must have taken. Being so young in a male-dominated profession, I’m wondering if there’s pressure on you, because you were some of the first women, and you want to pave a road for those behind you. Then, describing that this person, the implications on him sounded relatively short-term, and yet, for you, it had like longer-term implications. It wasn’t just, “Let’s deal with this and wrap it up, and I can move on.” Yes, maybe you could talk about that a little bit.

Telah

Absolutely. On the, I’ll say, the kinetic immediate, of course, there was the implications to my studies released. I was lucky, the new director of cadets that came in six months later, brought me back, continued my career. I thought 20 years of service. I was released again, because now I had broken service, so I wasn’t entitled to a contract like everybody else.

Those contracts have changed since then, but at the time, that’s the way it was. I was released again. I did nine years’ Reserve, always trying to get back to the reg force, always trying to continue my career. Then, I had — there was a general at the time who had known me my entire career, General Chuck Lamar, who brought me back to the Regular Force, and my career continued.

Even then, just from a career perspective, I lost nine years of a career. Yes, I did Reserve and I did fairly well in the Reserves. I commanded and all this stuff, but it was still not the same. Certainly, that slowed me down a lot in what I would have had, had I stayed in. Even once I got in, I got promoted colonel within a year, and I had people in my branch that refused to allow my name to go forward for any advancements, because they didn’t think anything should happen. That’s just on the career side, let alone the other implications.

Brian

There’s a couple of things that, our listeners aren’t going to be able to see unless we talk about them. I’m going to illustrate them for a little bit. First of all, a couple of minutes ago when we were talking about Kabul, not “Kah – bool,” and we’re having just a chat, it’s a discussion. Your hands are here, you’re doing this, you’re relaxed. By here, I mean just sitting on your knees with your arms like I am.

When we started into talking about MST, we got the hands clenched, and we’re talking about decades ago, right?

Telah

Absolutely.

Brian

Now that the conversation is past that culminating point and we’re past it, we’re relaxed again. Now, I’m not a doctor. I’ve been walked through by doctors like, “Brian, here’s what’s happening. your throat’s getting all red.” As I’m watching you, I’m learning that this is quite common. It’s just — it’s a physical reaction that I can see in you from a meter and a half away, based on something that is decades ago.

Telah

Absolutely. It affects me today. There’s no doubt about it. I was diagnosed with PTSD because of it. I don’t think many people can go through such a traumatic event, and not have long-term implications. It’s affected me mental health wise, it’s affected me physically, it’s affected my relationships at home, and it will always probably have an impact on who I am.

Laryssa

To look at your achievements within your career, how did you manage? What was happening behind the scenes, as you’re deploying to all these places, you’re raising a young Family, you’re very accomplished, you’re well-respected. What was going on behind the scenes? How did you manage, or balance those things?

Telah

I felt it was a constant struggle with myself. On one hand, I wanted to put it behind me, and continue on with a career, and forge forward, and the mission, and let’s go. On the other hand, every time I turned around, I felt like the system was saying, “Yes, but, come close to 20 years, but we’re not going to keep you in.” That constant struggle against these administrative issues just kept, like putting the hammer on the head, and just kept pounding on me saying, “Yes, you can’t put it behind. It’s coming back to the surface.”

That certainly didn’t help over the years when you’re trying to just work-life balance, and raising four kids, and two careers and both of us doing missions, and all this other stuff, is enough as it is, and enough of the– It’s really difficult on a Family and all the moves. Then, you’ve got this other stuff in the background that’s just constantly pushing at you and saying, “We’re not going to let you do what you want to do, and we’re not going to let you continue a career,” or, whatever it was.

It’s just these barriers just kept coming in, and that just plays on that mental health. You think of that rucksack that we always talk about. You had the big rock was in the bottom to start with. I had that big rock, and every time other stuff happened, the rocks just kept adding in, and it just gets really heavy on that rucksack that you’re constantly carrying around.

Brian

One thing, Telah, you also mentioned earlier was, about how the military tells you things. I think sometimes people think that it directly says things all the time. The suggestions, they’re not subtle. They may not be written down, because then they could be proved to have been communicated, but they’re absolutely there.

An example of what I’m talking about is, I noticed very soon that, rank matters, that’s easy to figure out, but who was allowed to speak? It was the people that had been somewhere and done something, right? I noticed at my level, no one ever said things like, corporals that have been on tour have more authority than master corporals that haven’t. In my trade, they absolutely did.

That wasn’t ever written, ever communicated in a verbal or provable form, but it absolutely was communicated. When you say something like, “We were told to not come forward,” or women were told to not report these assaults, are you saying like someone from a lectern said, “Women don’t do this,” or was it just applied 8,000 ways, and you’re made to know this?

Telah

Yes, no, of course, no one stood up in front of all the women and said, “Don’t you ever come forward with a sexual assault.” Even in the ’80s, they would never have done that. It was all those subtle, right? Those microaggressions constantly being told, “Well, women haven’t been here long, you better make it work, and it’s still an experiment,” and we heard all these things that you’re just like, “Ooh, subtle,” yes.

Brian

This is important because, so, a senior NCO, senior officer from two different levels of leadership and management, sometimes we seem to get this idea that we can order these things away, but you can only order things away that happen, right? Order something to happen that isn’t happening. We need to change culture, tone, and perceptions, in order to change the unwritten language that’s coming across.

That’s why sometimes from the outside in, I’ll look at things that come through, D&D or VAC and go, you’re missing how this changes. You can’t order away a bad idea. It just goes under the radar. It needs actual culture change, tone change, thinking changes. When I say that, like you’re nodding, but what are you nodding at? What is that? What’s registering there?

Telah

Well, you hit the nail right on the head. If I was to look at the culture when I left, compared to when I joined, oh my gosh, 350%, you name it, 500% improvement. We can extrapolate that it’s so much better, but there’s still a lot of issues. My three boys went through Royal Military College. I have a niece that went through. I know of other women that went through with my boys.

I know of other women that went through with my boys that were sexually assaulted, or harassed, or discriminated against, because they’ve told me. It’s not just military college. It’s everywhere. There’s still stuff going on. I’m a big proponent, “Well, report it.” I don’t know if I’d even say that now. Few years ago, we had all these cases come up forth against generals.

I know a few of the cases that came forward. I know of a couple of the people that made the complaints, and it’s not been good for them to come forward. It’s been very difficult for them to come forward. Anybody comes forward with a sexual assault, don’t do it to get revenge, or anything like that. They’re trying to make it better by more people coming forward to say, “We need to, as a society, listen to these people and believe them.” These women that have come forward about these cases, just look at the results of them, right?

Laryssa

What would you suggest to someone who is, very unfortunately, going through the experience right now, and doesn’t know what their next steps should be? Because, as you said, even though I’m a Family member on the periphery of the military culture, I’m still hearing that message, “You should report it. That’s how we’re going to make change, and that’s how we’re going to create culture change and things like that.”

We have to hold people accountable. I would think that would be part of my resolution of the experience. Someone has to be accountable. It might only be part of that resolution process. What would you tell someone who’s going through the process right now, and their experience, and not know what their next step should be?

Telah

I would first recommend that they contact the SMRC, I think it’s changed names now, the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre, just for that emotional support. Before someone actually comes forward with a sexual assault, it’s a personal choice to do so. Certainly, I think the chain of command is much better, way better about listening and believing.

Now that, once the chain of command gets it, and it goes over to the legal system, it becomes out of their hands. That’s when it gets really, really difficult, because law is what law is. Unless, basically, you have witnesses and the DNA evidence, convictions aren’t going to happen. Less than, I think, it’s 2%, the Stats Canada has a big report on this, less than 2% of sexual assaults that happen in Canada, actually, have some sort of conviction. Those are staggering.

It is such a toll on someone to come forward. It’s so difficult. It’s very courageous for someone to come forward with any type of sexual misconduct. They’re brave to do so, absolutely brave to do so. It does help the system to come forward, because it helps the culture to stop it, if we report it, it’s believed, and things are dealt with. It’s just the aftermath is just not there.

Brian

This happened to you in the past. You’ve thrived through it. You made it to colonel. Maybe someone out there would go, “Well, what doors could have been shut for this person who’s made it to the– Minus the general ranks, the top of the senior ranks.” What were you robbed of later on? What opportunities or things, Telah, the soldier wanted to get accomplished here? Which one of those didn’t you get? Because you got somewhere, and you got to do a lot.

Telah

Absolutely. My career has been great, despite everything. However, had it not happened to me, had I not had to leave at 20 years, do nine years of Reserves would have gone further, probably.

Brian

Right.

Telah

Right. Certainly, when I came back and I was promoted to Colonel, I was told by my branch that they didn’t like my Reserve time. That was going to be the end of it. They were not going to allow me the opportunity to go further, even though I could have done another 10 years of service before my CRA, my retirement age. Pension-wise, my pension could never go above a 35-year pension.

I am stuck at a 30-year pension. I would have loved to done more years to get a 35-year pension. Can’t. Topped out, because on paper I have 35 years of service, although 9 years of it is part-time. On the pension, actual pension, it’s 30 years. It affected my pension. Absolutely. It affected my career advancement, affected my Family life and other stuff. Just from the pure career aspects, it had a big effect. Yes, absolutely.

Brian

I want to ask you, in your opinion, ST versus MST. We’ve got military sexual assaults, and we’ve got them occurring in all aspects of society. Probably, not a career out there that doesn’t have it. My side from outside in, because this never happened to me, is we sold everyone. We were talking about the brochure. Why does someone join to be in the artillery? Probably, has something to do with cannons.

Well, I wanted to join the brotherhood. I did, and I got it. I loved it, and I miss it. I’d go back. I was sold on the Family, and that delivered. My sense outside in on this issue is that, even though the career can advance, the dreams get altered. How could my Family do this to me? That’s what I think. Am I missing something? Does that ring true?

Telah

You hit the nail right on the head. Absolutely. To me, it was a brother in arms that assaulted me. It’s the ultimate trust, right? You join an institution, where you have your life in someone else’s hands. That’s the bottom line. We do. Somebody’s got your six, right? When you’re in a mission overseas, and the bullets are firing, you’ve got to trust the person next to you.

When that one person, when there’s someone in that circle has broken that trust, it really affects your ability, and your career to trust people. On the other hand, I had a lot of friends that were super supportive, a lot of men that were very supportive, women too. It didn’t jade me against all men, or anything like that. I have four boys. I would say, the fact that I had all these men supporting me, gave me some faith back in the institution, gave me some faith back in that brotherhood.

Then, the few people in the chain of command that made the different decisions that would affect me, would keep breaking that trust down, until near the end, it was just unbearable.

Laryssa

We’ve talked a bit about career implications, financial implications, and you’re talking about this brotherhood where your husband also served. He’s committed to the same institution that hurt you. Did you talk to your spouse about it? How did it implicate your relationship? How did it implicate his relationship with the military? Maybe it didn’t, but I’m wondering about how this has implicated your relationships and your Family life.

Telah

Hey, a very good question. Actually, we were dating. [chuckles] He came to court with me —

Laryssa

Wow.

Telah

— and he got charged for going to court, but that’s a whole different story. I think it changed him. He’ll say, now he’s a feminist. He’s a feminist, he says, because he believes that, and not the bra-burning, that old attitude, but really it’s about women being able to do whatever they can do in their own physical, mental capabilities, and let them be able to do what they want.

He’s a big proponent of allowing women to do whatever. He was very supportive when he was artillery. When he was the commanding officer of the guns in Quebec, he had three women battery commanders. Those are majors, for those that are unaware. Company command is what people associate that with. Anyways, super supportive, “Hey, look at me, look at me. I got three women. They’re all amazing.”

I think one’s a brigadier general, and the other two are colonels. He’s very good. For him, it really, I think, affected him in that way, in that, he wanted to be super supportive, not just of me, but of all women and anyone, any minority. There’s no reason why they can’t do it. It did affect us as a relationship for sure, especially, later on when it became more and more to the surface, mental health-wise, for me, it really affected our relationship. He was– Always been very supportive, very much a rock. It was more me distancing myself from intimacy, those types of things —

Laryssa

Sure.

Telah

— because it just becomes difficult.

Brian

One of the things that I’ve looked at in regards to coming out, and speaking about whatever issue someone’s dealing with, it might be a cheesy term, but the weight of command is something. You’re not just doing your job. You know that the way you roll today, is going to affect hundreds, and for some people in this force, thousands of people. I look at the current CDS, and I think of what struggles I went through to run 36 people.

I look at the CAF chief, like you’re the mentor for 75,000 of those 90,000, and the CDS is running the 90,000 with the government direction, and all those things, all the different subordinate levels of command in there, we often get this attitude that helping with mental health is what we do for privates and corporals. The door is always open to the padre for the troops. What happens when colonels are hurting? What happens when the base chief is the person that needs to walk through that door, and speak to the corporal medic and say, “I need to see the psych?” What are we dealing with there?

Telah

It’s super tough. I think it’s tougher when you’re a leader, because you don’t want to be seen. Unfortunately, we have that attitude. You don’t want to be seen as being weak, but I say the opposite. I say you’re strong for going forward. It’s like anything. You have an ankle that’s hurting. You should go when it’s hurting early, until the point you’re not in the point that you need a surgery. It’s the same for your mental health.

If you can go early, which I did, I think I probably went earlier than many people do. I wasn’t at the point, I’m in my basement not being able to leave. If you can go early and get the help you need, it’s better for the institution, it’s better for you in command, and you’re showing strength to your subordinates, because they can look up and say, “Yes, you know what? It’s okay to reach out and get help.” It’s like any other illness you have. You need to get help early.

Brian

I’ve talked a bit about the soldier in you, the commander in you, but mom’s got four kids that are all wearing a cap badge of some sort here. How’s that going?

Telah

The three older ones that are in the military, they certainly are not super happy right now. Morale is not easy right now in the CAF, and I think that’s across the CAF for different Canadian forces for different reasons. There’s budget cuts and stuff, but we’re very proud of everything they do.

Laryssa

We can tell by the big smile on your face seeing your kids.

Telah

Yes, super proud of all four of my boys. I look at it this way. If you can get through two military people in a career, all the deployments overseas, the postings, and your kids can get through high school, and be okay, that’s a win. That really is a win. The fact that they’ve got success right now, all four of them, hey, that’s a big win.

Laryssa

Speaking of your boys, it sounded like we’ve chatted a little bit about them that they identified early that they wanted to serve in the military. Your experience with military sexual trauma, did you have a conversation with them about it before they disclosed they wanted to join the military? Were they aware of your experiences? Did you disclose it after that?

I’m assuming that you did disclose it, because you talked about the fact that when they were attending RMC, they knew that you would be a source of support for people. Obviously, you did talk about it. When and how did you have that conversation?

Telah

I think they —  well, they all joined cadets and that’s got their interest in joining the military. I’m not sure exactly when we would have that conversation, but before they joined, for sure, I wanted them to be aware of what had happened to me, because I want them to be good men, and supportive men. I want them to be those cheerleaders for the women that they work with, and to be that support, and they all are.

That was pertinent. For example, yes, two of them had women they knew that were assaulted in some way, or something would happen to them, and they would turn those women to me and say, “Hey, talk to my mom.” That shows to me that they are supportive, and they are there to be that lending hand, to be the shoulder to cry on, or whatever that is needed at the time. That’s going to make them better officers. That’s going to make them better in the military.

Brian

We’ve been asking a lot of the questions, and you’re giving the answers. It means you’re having the tougher part of the conversation. When this happens for you, because sometime between where we’re at today and later on, you’ve got to go home, and you’ve got to recenter yourself. What kind of things do you do when you’ve had, whether by conversation, or just something shocks you and brings you back to that point, what’s your way of getting, Telah back to center, so you can walk in the home, and be mom and wife again?

Telah

For me, it’s always been the gym. I need my gym time every day. That’s been my solace. That’s been my output of anger. That’s been my output of everything, lifting weights, running, I’ve done it all, HIIT training, CrossFit, whatever, I will go and I’ll pound it out in the gym. Sometimes it’s doing other things, like as a Family, we’ll go camping, we’ll go traveling, and that gets you away too in a different aspect, like you’re away from home, you’re away from the city, your mind changes.

I got into photography. I go out walking in the woods, and just take pictures. That’s another great output for me. I just try to find the things that works for me to help ground me, bring me back, and give me that space that I need.

Brian

That discussion, that’s leadership once you’ve turned the ID card in, right?

Telah

Right.

Brian

Because I’ve got a different version of that, and it’s changed over time. The last decade, I’m a heck of a lot more into cooking than I ever got to.

Telah

Yes, my husband too. [chuckles] I love it.

Brian

Right. I was living on like rice and toast, or whatever I could microwave for decades. That’s not work anymore. Yes. For me, I just got to see the kids, start planning meals, start getting my brain back into thinking of home things. That’s a way that slides back in.

Laryssa

Yes. I think it’s about getting out of your own head, whether you’re pouring yourself into a recipe, getting to the gym, getting out of your own head. I think that’s something that I try and practice as well is connecting with friends. That’s really important. You talked about peer support, Telah, even in the early days that you had people coming forward, supporting you, someone you can trust to talk to about things. Yes, for sure, hiking and nature and fresh air is all part of the prescription. I think sometimes.

Telah

Absolutely.

Brian

How are you feeling in your body right now? The whole, I guess, “somatic” is the term I’m learning lately, but the head-to-toe side?

Telah

I’m not bad. I think I’ll go for a walk after this to just, soak in the fresh air outside, and the beautiful sunshine before I get back in my car, and drive through the traffic, because I’ll just need that half hour of decompression, so to speak. It’s never an easy conversation, but it’s a conversation I think that’s important for me to have. People will look at my career and go, “Wow, look at this, colonel, two service couples, four kids,” blah, blah, blah. They don’t always see the cracks.

Laryssa

Yes.

Telah

I think it’s important for me to talk about those cracks, to let other people know it’s okay. “You need to come forward, you need to report abuse,” whatever that is for other people out there. I think that’s important for me as a leader. Yes, I’m not wearing the uniform anymore, but we’re still always leaders. I know there’s people out there that might look up to that. They need to know that things aren’t always what they’re seeing. It’s important to know where those issues are.

Laryssa

Thanks for choosing to have that conversation with us, and to trust us with that. It must be difficult, but I appreciate your continued leadership.

Telah

Thank you.

Brian

We’ve been joined today on another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission by retired Colonel Morrison, but by Telah. It’s been — it’s a challenging talk to listen to when you haven’t even lived through it. I’m really appreciative that you were willing to go there, and that this is something that we can talk about in this space. Many thanks to you for coming, for meeting us ahead of time, and for walking in a pretty difficult path, but also showing it in context of a positive career in the end, and just how that event affects so many things that occurred to you afterwards. Thank you all for joining us for another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission.