Episode 30 – The hidden impacts of intergenerational trauma with guests Guy Dallaire and Tarik Kadri

MIND BEYOND THE MISSION EPISODE 30 — THE HIDDEN IMPACTS OF INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA WITH GUESTS GUY DALLAIRE AND TARIK KADRI

Brian McKenna

You found our podcast. We are Mind Beyond the Mission. This is a podcast about Famils and their Families, and specifically mental health. What goes on in our lives, what goes on in our heads. We’re not talking to you as doctors or professionals, we’re talking to you about living with it and what it’s like. Brian McKenna, 19 years in the Canadian Forces. I’m joined by my partner, Laryssa Lamrock.

Laryssa Lamrock

I’m a Veteran Family member. I’m a proud military brat. My husband served in the military, proud military mom. We’re really excited about this podcast to delve into issues that are important to the Veteran and Family community.

Brian

Join us as we talk about mental health from the perspective of Veterans and their Families.

Laryssa

Here we are for another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission. Thanks to everyone for tuning in. If this is your first time, thanks for being here. If it’s your first time, go check out some of the other episodes and other topics that we have. We’ve covered quite a few topics with a few different guests, so please check that out. My co-host — my most common co-host I guess, or my partner — is Brian McKenna, who’s the National Strategic Advisor for Veterans at Atlas, my cohort there.

He is still currently away, so we’re really happy to have another guest co-host with us today. I’d like to introduce Tarik Kadri, who is a registered social worker, a trauma therapist and a clinical counseling supervisor. Tarik has served 18 years in the Canadian Armed Forces, retiring as a Captain, Social Work Officer. Tarik has extensive knowledge and experience in treating clients who’ve experienced trauma or experiencing symptoms of PTSD. He is also a member of Atlas’s Strategic Reference Group.

I just want to thank you, Tarik, for your continued support and guidance in Atlas and the work that we do. I appreciate you being on the team there with us. Tarik, maybe we can open up. We are going to be talking about vicarious trauma today, specifically on Family members. It’d be really great with your background as social worker and the work that you do with Veterans and your knowledge of PTSD and such. Maybe you can open us up today with a bit of a definition of trying to understand maybe the differences and similarities between vicarious trauma and multigenerational trauma because we might be using both terms in our conversation today.

Tarik Kadri

Thank you for having me. It’s my first podcast, everyone, so I’m happy to be here and happy to give you my knowledge and my expertise in this area. Trauma is an area that I work with predominantly with clients, particularly Veterans. Very interested in this topic. I think it’s important to really separate and understand the difference between trauma and intergenerational trauma, because I think there’s a lot of understanding maybe around trauma more than intergenerational trauma and vicarious trauma.

I’ll broadly just define my knowledge of both. Trauma is a response to something bad happening. More specifically, trauma is a response to an overwhelming event that causes you to fear your life or the life and safety of someone close to you. One of the reasons trauma can have a long-term impact on our physical and mental health is that often trauma memories are not stored the same way that other memories are.

Memories of a traumatic event might be unintegrated. That means that instead of residing in the past with all our other recollections, these memories can show up in the present as troubling symptoms like flashbacks, panic attacks, nightmares, anxiety, depression, and a need to avoid any reminders of the traumatic incident. They can continue to haunt us. I believe, for the most part, trauma usually is defined typically in therapy, typically in diagnosis, typically with clients in general.

When it comes to intergenerational trauma, the effects of a developmental trauma can be more subtle than those of a single-incident trauma. The cause may not be as immediately obvious as a car crash. This trauma typically comes up from ongoing neglect, abuse or misattunement, which is not understanding a child’s needs. Because it starts in early childhood, this kind of trauma has a huge ramification for the development of the brain and the nervous system.

To an infant whose brain is not fully developed or a child who depends fully on a caregiver, the experience can feel life-threatening. Since the trauma occurs repeatedly over time, it will literally shape how the brain develops and will therefore affect the growing child’s sense of self, others, and the world into adulthood. This is where the concept of intergenerational trauma comes in. Intergenerational trauma is a developmental trauma that is passed down through generations. When a caregiver’s burdened by the unresolved trauma, their capacity to raise a child is impaired.

It’s important to say it’s impaired unknowingly. Unknowingly, they’re inflicting trauma on a child. I think it’s important to really distinguish that, right? That it’s unknowingly. For the most part, I don’t think it’s known that this is happening. The person who might be passing it down to their generation has been traumatized through their experience and they’re unknowingly passing on to their childhood or to their generation. That’s a distinction between the two. One is maybe more of a single event. The other one is more developmental in its nature.

Laryssa

It sounds like by your definition, Tarik, that intergenerational trauma and maybe vicarious trauma for that matter, it sounds a lot more subtle. Like you’re saying, if someone has experienced a primary trauma themselves, not always, but it can be this singular event and you could put your finger on it. For vicarious trauma and multigenerational trauma, as we’ll be exploring maybe those two things today somewhat, it can be much more subtle.

Tarik

I think the thing is as people, it helps us to know the source of our trauma. It just helps us with the associations, the meaning, and helps us also with the healing. Sometimes with intergenerational trauma and developmental trauma, it’s unknown. It’s very frustrating sometimes. There are some therapies particularly that do developmental heresies, but a lot don’t. It usually comes in. The client comes in, indicates what the issue is, but sometimes they might not even know when they’re experiencing intergenerational trauma.

That’s why I think this is important topic for us to talk about. I think it’s also important that it’s brought up in conversations too with therapists. It’s not something I think is studied or known as trauma. Intergenerational trauma, I think it’s not really talked about in diagnosis. It’s not really talked about in therapy. Yes, I do believe it is subtle. I do believe the difference is with trauma, there’s a key indicator of a single trauma or multi-traumas that come up for somebody.

Laryssa

Well, this is a perfect segue then to introduce our guest for today. As you said, it’s important to talk about it, and so we’re going to. I’m very pleased to introduce Guy Dallaire. Guy was born into a multi-generational military Family. He enrolled in the Canadian Armed Forces himself in 2005, serving both in the reserve and regular forces until a medical release in 2020. In 2021, Veterans Affairs Canada did recognize his diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder himself.

Today, Guy continues to work for the Department of National Defence as a public servant. He devotes much of his spare time to researching the impacts of vicarious trauma on adult children of Veterans and first responders, which is how I got connected with Guy, I think, a couple of years ago now. His findings will soon be published in an upcoming book, which will include the experiences of adult children and Veterans.

Guy, as you and I have chatted before, you’ve talked about that you do that work out of a sense of duty and acknowledging the lack of academic research that there’s not a lot from the lived experience perspectives of adult children and vicarious trauma. That’s why we’re really, really excited to have you joining us today. Maybe where we can start off is just wondering, as Tarik was talking about vicarious trauma versus overlapping multi-generational trauma, how did what he was talking about resonate with you?

Guy Dallaire

Good afternoon. It resonates with me in the sense that the trauma that I’ve been diagnosed with, that I’ve been told that I have because it’s still sometimes hard to believe that it’s there. Every day, I’m often reminded of it still is that it wasn’t something that I live through my own military service. It’s not an injury. I refer to it as an injury just as all mental health, OSI, PTSDs, whatever you want to call them.

I generally call them just an injury as they are. Mine was not service-related. It’s not because I experienced something during my service that traumatized me. It’s something that I’ve lived through as a child of a member, who was himself injured. Later on, I learned that his own father was also very much injured through his service. That’s how it resonates with me in that sense.

Laryssa

You mentioned growing up as the child of a Canadian Armed Forces Veteran or military member. I was wondering how you would describe your upbringing and the influence of your parents’ own military experience on your Family life or on yourself as a child.

Guy

I would describe my upbringing up to the point where my father deployed on the mission in which he was injured. Up to that point, it was relatively normal as any military Family member. Well, we moved every couple of years. My father was working very hard and long days and sometimes absent. My mother was raising three children, but we didn’t miss anything. Logistically, we were well looked after.

When both my parents were there, we generally had a good, normal time. I remember — I have fond memories of us going on vacation to Virginia Beach when we were young and really having fun. Things really took a different turn when my father deployed on his mission to Rwanda. He both physically and figuratively didn’t return. Physically because on his return, he was posted to another city on IR or imposed restriction.

We stayed in Québec City while he moved on to Montreal and Ottawa and different postings. Figuratively, because he never really came back from that experience, he came back a different person. As he confirmed to me just a few years ago when I finally mustered the courage to ask him point-blank, as I invited him in my house to have a cup of tea, I asked him if the father I knew when I was young was still there.

He confronted me and knew indeed that that person was no longer there anymore. Both physically and figuratively, he didn’t return. That’s when things really changed. Now, as far as how it influenced me, I lived through the Family business of serving in the Armed Forces. We all did it, all three of us, all kids. It had this huge influence on us on how we chose to orient our careers, either part-time or full-time serving members.

Also, as we were growing up, for my part when my father was injured, I was eight years old. I have an older brother and sister. From that point on, my outlook on life started changing. I noticed from my friends at school or elsewhere that my outlook and how I looked at life and common things in life was sometimes different than others. That’s how I guess I would describe growing up and living in that context.

Tarik

As I was mentioning, the difference between intergenerational trauma and vicarious trauma. I’m just curious if you could tell us at the time and, again, not to get too personal into your life unless you like to, but did you have awareness of the differences or were you just understanding trauma to be all the same encompassing?

Guy

When I was growing up, I didn’t really understand it. [chuckles] First of all, because when my father returned and he continued serving for several years, I didn’t know per se he was injured, or at least he never sat us down because even for him, it wasn’t just coming off the plane that he was diagnosed, right? In the years subsequent, I never really knew of his injury. I only really learned about it that there was something going on when he was being medically released.

My mother sat us down in the living room, which was very highly unusual because we only go in the living room when there’s Family occasions. They explained to us that Dad would be around a lot more, and then he would be retired. He wouldn’t need our support. Of course, that lasted a few months, but he went back to work after that, working for different government agencies sharing his expertise. I never really was aware of anything growing up.

It’s only when his first book came out in 2003 that I actually learned of his injury and that I learned of his experience. It was learning from somebody else or someplace else rather than from him sitting us down, telling us about his injury, what had transpired in words that would’ve been appropriate, and explained to us what he was going through, his symptoms. These are the pills he takes. This is how we can expect things maybe to change. This is something that definitely did not happen.

By the way, through my own research, I discovered 99% of the time, unfortunately, this happened. It’s not to single my father out. I never thought I had anything or anything was going on or wrong with me. I was going to schools with all the other children who were civilian. I didn’t go to a school on base. My mother really put a high priority on our education. She sent us to private schools downtown. She was herself formerly a teacher.

Education was really important for her. We were living in town by my age when I was around anyways, weren’t living on base. In PMQs, but just not on base. I had no real way to compare it to, say, for example, a school on base where most of the children or a lot of children are living through the same challenges of a serving parent. I didn’t have that reference. I didn’t know anything if I was normal or not normal. All I knew is how I was.

In hindsight now, I look back and I say, “Oh yes, I can see some check in the boxes or milestones or check marks.” Something might have been there, but I only became really aware something was wrong in 2012 when my girlfriend at the time, who is today my wife, really made it quite clear that something was not correct and that I needed help. Before that, I was just muddling through, doing my best, and living through the symptoms, thinking they were normal.

Who was I to ask for help or is it my father that was injured? I wasn’t the one that went to war and lived through horrors or blew up an IED in Afghanistan. I’m not one of those. I didn’t know anything was really wrong. I certainly did not allow myself to think that anything was wrong. I was just the youngest, the kid, when my father showed up on a Friday night coming home for the weekend.

I’d wait for him at the door, take his suitcases, and give him a big hug, “Welcome home.” I did my duty, made sure I was on time on target when things needed to be done, didn’t complain and didn’t make any waves. Be the gray man. That was my job. I did it to the best of my ability, didn’t always show up in school in the sense that the marks didn’t always fall. Although I can assure you, I was not the one causing trouble.

Laryssa

Guy, whenever I have a chance to chat with you, you always leave something very profound for me to mull over and chew on. What you just shared with us is, “As a child, I did my duty. I did my own duty.” I’m going to be percolating on that one for a bit. One of the first times I met you, you were one of our very first keynote speakers for the Family summit a couple of years ago.

At that time, you shared something with me that I will continue to carry and, actually, if I can say, guides my work even now when I’m helping to advocate or chat with other adult children. You mentioned that as a child when you were young, when you were dependent and fall under benefits of your Family or whatever the case is, but when you were a young child, you do not have the wisdom, the capacity, the life experience, the insights, the maturity to come to terms with what you as a child have experienced and how you have been impacted.

It’s not ‘till you gain that maturity in life experience as an adult. It could be into your 30’s or your 40’s or even for me in my 50’s, trying to figure myself out. That was so profound. Especially because as children grow, when they get to a certain age, they have to find supports and help. As you said, it wasn’t until your girlfriend pointed things out to you. I just wanted to share that that sits with me. I think one of the reasons that we need to have these conversations, as you said, Tarik, about how adult children are impacted. Do you wonder if you have any reflections on that as I put that back to you on how that sat with me?

Guy

Often the problem that I found in my research and I must point out that the scope of our research was adult children of military members and first responders and Veterans for a lot of reasons. Mostly because I was interested in the impacts, how it affects people later on in life as it had impacted my life and my career because I was effectively released in large part due to my mental health situation. Also, because working with children is just a whole other level of complication and that I didn’t want to go into.

It’s mostly the impacts later on in life that really interested me and I was seeking to explore. When you turn 18 and adult, all of a sudden, you install a patch on your brain that, “Okay, you’re an adult now and this is your current status and how your system is functioning.” It’s really living through personal relationships, your friends, and also how it impacts your intimate relationships and your professional life and your Family life.

It’s living through those that sometimes, eventually, it has impacts on either one or several of those aspects. Sometimes you just don’t realize it. You just don’t know it either through circumstance or because people have been supporting you or you don’t realize it. It can happen. In my case, it only happened much later. When I was 27 years old, I was told or something like that, “You got something here.” She literally said, “Either you go get help or we’re done.”

That was after a very uncomfortable situation outburst. It sneaks up on you later on sometimes. It snuck up on me and I thought I was doing okay, but it shattered my career. It shattered my dreams. I was hoping to serve until I was 55. I had nothing else. I didn’t know what else to do. I had no other plans or ambitions in my life. I had nowhere else to go and my life was my service. I was suddenly told I can’t do it anymore.

For somebody else who’s going through something like that, like you said, for you, it was much later in life. I met somebody the other day in one of the presentations I was giving. It was a 70-something-year-old man who came to me and he told me he just came to listen to me speak. His father, who served during the Korean War, now came back. I don’t want to get into too much details, but it was just very difficult at home. He went through a violent upbringing.

He was finding that he was repeating a lot of the same mistakes his father did. He was just now discovering what he was going through. He was just starting to realize, making the links at that age. There’s no age. There’s even known cases of very old people whose parents served in World War I, World War II, still today coming out, and just later on realizing how things might have impacted them. There’s no age for this.

It’ll sneak up on you or it’ll impact you when you might not even know it. It’s about taking the time to do a check-in. You go to the dentist when your teeth hurt. You go to the doctor when you bust your knee. When it’s not going correctly in the spirit, in the mind, people still don’t have that reflex of going to get the help. Just go for a check-in. Might be nothing, might be totally something else. We don’t know.

In my case, despite becoming aware of my father’s injury, I was still very focused on my role and my duty and what I had to do both for my Family and for my career and service before self, serving Canada before self and all that and even putting my career in front of my own wife and kid when I was serving. The problem is that sometimes it happens and you only realize it once you’ve hit that wall. That’s the main issue with them.

Tarik

If I could just add on, Guy. I think it’s really important when you talk about your experience, it’s direct experience. I think it helps the listeners. I think it helps me to understand trauma does not just impact the person that it’s happened to or personal experiences. Also, it’s encompassing where it impacts others as we’re talking about. The examples we’re giving is that exactly specifically of how and when.

I think it’s important also to really talk about the transmission of intergenerational trauma and vicarious trauma. From our research from what I’ve seen and also my experience of being a psychotherapist for about 14 years, my knowledge base is transmission’s in three different ways. It could be all of them or one of them. Typically, through caregivers. It’s not to discredit caregivers, but anyone who maybe overlooks the care of somebody, so this could be a child or someone older.

A caregiver’s unresolved trauma affects the way they might raise the person that they’re raising, whether it’s children or someone else. Their traumas, in essence, might impact how they raise somebody else, again, unknowingly. I find the second one and there’s research around it through genetics. Trauma can be passed through inherent traits and can affect how certain genes function. I think this is new research. I think it’s important to realize intergenerational trauma, it could impact our genes and what we pass on.

It’s not to scare people, but it’s an important fact that when people experience traumas like other things in life, it could also impact their transmission to other people that they’re raising or they’re caring for. Then finally, the third one is usually through culture. What that means is some types of intergenerational trauma can be classified as historical or environmental trauma, which means they’re transmitted through cultural stories, memories, living conditions, and other consequence of historical events.

For example, as we’re talking today, combat could also be genocide and slavery. It’s interesting to research that talks about how that could be transmitted through generations. Memories and stories are very important and could have an impact as you’re describing also on you even unknowingly, right? Also, it’s interesting how you talk about how maybe you weren’t aware.

We do relate it to things like single incidents like combat or muggings or robberies or assaults, but developmental or intergenerational vicarious trauma sometimes is not even known. The person doesn’t know. The therapist doesn’t know. Maybe the health care team doesn’t know. I really do appreciate that you are talking about it. It’s important also to talk about how it can be transmitted through the generations.

Laryssa

As part of the research for your book, I think you have interviewed a number of other adult children. I know it might be early in the process for you. If those 12 adult children were here with us today, we’d cram them all into our Pop Up Podcasting room here, what message do you think that they would want people to know?

Guy

I feel compelled to just give a shout-out to the MFRC in Valcartier who put me in contact, and also Wounded Warriors Canada who made the networking possible for me to interview those, I believe, 12 adult children of military Veterans, first responders. The main takeaway I have found from the interview process in a lot of cases was, I’ve already mentioned earlier, is that not being told or just growing up with the symptoms of the injury in the Family.

By symptoms, they can be very wide-ranging in the type and the intensity. Growing up with that and not knowing about it, learning it from some other means either through Family, friends, neighbors, whatever, “Oh, how’s your dad or mom doing?” Then you’re like, “Why? What do you mean?” Then the main thing I think they would say is that if they had been, as a child growing up with that, told the truth, explained, not trying to hide it under the covers to protect the image of Family or to protect the image of their injured parent or just to, out of love and caring, not wanting to burden the child to say, “No, no, this is not the children’s burden.”

Certainly, that would be one of the biggest — not knowing about it and just living with the symptoms of sometimes things crushing down around you and having to take up the mantle, go through parentification, having to take that role of a parent, can do it, or living through those awkward moments and symptoms without knowing or understanding really why, just living through. That’s the main thing I think they would agree based on what I’ve collected through my primary researchers.

That’s the main thing, living through it but not knowing why or being told of it, so that they can themselves understand what’s going on and not grow up thinking, “Was this my fault? Did I do something wrong?” Then carrying that stress and anxiety later on and all the other unresolved issues of the parent who’s no longer really there either physically or figuratively. That’s probably the main thing. I’m going a bit into an extreme here just to demonstrate my point.

I’ve been asked sometimes if it would’ve been easier if my father would’ve been killed in action and not return at all. I’ve reflected on it. Of course, obviously, I’m glad he wasn’t and that he’s still in my life. We’re still working our relationship pretty well as best we can. He’s the grandfather of my child. I’m very grateful and all that and that he’s around. I’m very happy for that. Would it have been easier in terms of closure, in terms of grief, in terms of carrying on with your life? Of course, I would say, yes, it would have been easier.

That being said, it was not the case. I don’t like singling myself out here. I want to emphasize just like many other children of Veterans and first responders, growing up not knowing what the hell is going on or why, our things exploding in the house or out in public with my mom or dad and I don’t know what’s going on. I just got to manage it the best I can and shut up and do my role and walk on eggshells. That’s probably the main thing that would come up.

Tarik

If I can say, Guy, it was such a very vulnerable and honest reflection of your experience. Really appreciate sharing it because I think it is something like the what-ifs, could-haves, should-haves, right? You’re talking about your experience. I’d be curious to know. Again, it’s your experience. If that did happen, vicarious, intergenerational trauma would then become other traumas for you potentially, right?

The thing that you said there, and I was reflecting on what we were talking at the beginning, is the why. The why seems to be very important for anything in life. Why is this happening? What’s the reason for it? Where is it coming from? You really hit on. I think it’s really, really important. I think it’s really important, especially through the healing process and recovery if we know the why.

I find sometimes some people just don’t discover the why. It is suffering and not knowing the why sometimes, right? Sometimes we have to use logic and deduction. The why is really important, but sometimes we’re just not fortunate enough to know the why. I really appreciate that you brought that point up. Can I ask you? When you maybe discovered or knew the why for yourself, did it help you through your healing journey?

Guy

Yes, it did, but it arrived a bit — because when I think back on it, I’m like, “Man, it’s obvious sometimes. Why?” Now, today, in hindsight, for the most part, for a lot it — not everything, but a lot of it — for me, the why, specifically in the context of my father’s experience, his mission in Rwanda, a lot of the why comes from the injustice from it due to the mission and then the politics at the time.

Why was all those people and my father and the mission allowed to go through that while people at home were just talking about OJ Simpson and going on with their life back in the day? That’s one big part of it for me. The other why, why am I feeling like this? Why if somebody trash-talks the army or Veterans, I get so worked up? Why is it that I feel like somebody who’s talking about the most mundane thing they saw on TV while you can turn on the news and see all the suffering and war in the place?

Why are you so lighthearted? Can you go through your day without being so angry? Why do I have to go and almost lock myself in the closet so I can cry when I see something sad on TV related to Veterans or something so my son doesn’t see me getting worked up off a lot of things? A lot of whys. Having been in therapy now for 13 years really helped with the why. Now, I understand. I’ve developed tools. I’ve developed methods. I see the tsunami of emotions coming. I can manage it.

I can read my body, my emotions, my thoughts, how my relationships with the others are around me. I just quoted the BETR model for those out there who recognize what I’m saying. I’ve worked hard to develop those tools to help me get through the why and help at least alleviate or see it coming, better manage it, but it’s always still there. The prism through which I see life is that eight-year-old kid watching the news and seeing people being chopped up by machetes and my dad on TV explaining what’s going on and people doing nothing.

That’s how I see the world every day. It’s hard to find joy sometimes and connect with the beauty and the simplicity of things going around you, especially when you have a child. My son’s now seven years old. I don’t want him to see things the way I do. I just want him to be a normal child and seeing things for the simple and beautiful life that he has and that I try to provide him. The why is still there. It’s just not so overwhelming now, or at least I manage it a lot better than I used to.

Laryssa

I so appreciate you talking about that because you opened the door for maybe another podcast episode, but something that I’m so personally curious about. What you’ve described a little bit to me is what I interpret as a moral injury. I’ve always been curious whether Family members can experience moral injury, meaning when their own view of the world or their own moral compass is thrown off key.

You’re questioning humanity as you’ve described being a child watching these things on TV. I think that’s a further conversation to have. I think one question that I would like to ask you is maybe, again, pulling from those other adult children that you have chatted about or maybe through your own observations, do you have any thoughts on how society and support systems can better address the needs of adult children who might be experiencing vicarious trauma?

Guy

The simple fact we’re here talking about this, I think already speaks volumes to how things are progressing. A couple of years ago, the residential schools story was really in the headlines and associated with that, a lot of the multi-generational trauma within the First Nations Families living through that. Today, I’m discovering more and more, a lot of interests in my own research, which is I’m trying to pull it out of the academic sphere and more into the day-to-day lived experience sphere.

I find that it brings me a lot of hope for that. The fact that I had so many participants willing to come and tell their story and how they lived through their parents’ injury. Again, experiences may vary. To me, I’m optimistic for the future. Mental health is now integrated a lot more with the whole health. I feel some optimism looking at those participants and how they were and how they lived their parents’ experience back in the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, and 2000s, compared to today.

I’m permitting myself to be somewhat optimistic. Is it perfect? No, but I refuse to be pessimistic or to allow myself to spiral in those “Everything’s broken. Everything’s crap.” It takes work. It takes time. I think things would only slowly get better from here in terms of recognizing this. Just when needed, have the space to go get the help needed and hopefully make it so that, in a perfect world, a member who’s injured can find the words and the peace and the help and resources to address that with their child.

Same as when mommy or daddy comes home from work and from their service, from their tour, and they’re missing a limb. It’s so obvious. It’s there. They want to help them. Well, it’s not so obvious for a mental health injury. I just hope someday, they’ll be able to share that so that when shit hits the fan at home, at least they know why. They can help in a way that’s appropriate to their age and to what they’re living as a child.

Tarik

Last question, but also an expression of feeling. A psychotherapist is also a Veteran who support people who serve. The access to assessments and treatment, there used to be a huge barrier, but there’s not now. There’s a lot of things going on inside of our head, a lot of things we’re talking to ourselves about not accessing those services. They’re much more accessible now. I just think based on our conversation, a lot of Veterans, military members do suffer in silence.

Today, we’re talking a bit about their suffering, but also maybe a generational suffering too. It’s not to make people afraid. It’s not to threaten people or pressure them, but the supports are out there even if you do ask to get assessed, to speak to someone, to see if something can be done to support you and maybe your Family and as we’re talking about generation as well too. Not so much a question, but I do encourage anyone who is listening to this and who’s questioning.

Maybe do seek some support if you do feel that there’s some support that you either need or the support that you need for your Family. It is out there. I could tell you. I work with Veterans Affairs directly. I’m on the Veterans Affairs board. The bearers are not there as much as they used to be. I really do appreciate hearing Guy’s story. I’m really hoping that also does allow people to listen, to understand, and maybe open up to receiving support if they haven’t just so people are not suffering in silence. Then also in turn, as we’re talking about maybe sometimes their Family as well.

Laryssa

Well said. Thank you, Tarik. Guy, any last thoughts?

Guy

Yes, thank you to everyone who helped me in the research and especially the participants because I wouldn’t be talking about this obviously without their participation and what they’re doing. Just to my wife and kid, I love you. One day when you listen to this, thank you. Also, a special hello to my own Family, my brother and sister, my mother and my father. Thank you for being there and I love you all.

Laryssa

Okay, Guy, I just about made it through the episode without tearing up. Thank you for that. Guy, I know that you are someone that feels very passionately and strongly about providing a platform for other adult children, for other voices, for them to express themselves. I’m just so grateful to you for things that you shared from your own personal experience today because I think it helps people resonate and feel validated in their experiences. I just really appreciate that. Again, thank you very much. I hope we continue to work together, Guy. I will still be knocking on your email inbox.

Tarik, thank you for stepping up to be our guest co-host for today. That was phenomenal. You’ve stepped up to the call when I reached out, so just appreciate you being here as well. Actually, I also want to do a shout-out to Pop Up Podcasting, who always makes us sound so good, and also to Courtney Wright, who is our internal producer over at Atlas. She does a little of work behind the scenes.

To the listeners who subscribe to the podcast, we want to create awareness for the podcast itself and review us. We’re looking for stars. I think that’s how it goes. I don’t even know because I’m old school. Anyways, if folks want to share their thoughts on topics and guests, we’re also always happy to hear that. Thanks, everyone, for joining us for this episode of Mind Beyond the Mission.