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“Am I burnt out or just tired?”

“Am I sick or am I just fatigued?”

“How can I be someone’s caregiver and their spouse at the same time?”

These are questions that are often asked by Veteran Family members supporting a loved one with a health concern. Family members may sometimes find themselves shifting from “spouse mode” to “caregiver mode” and back again several times a day, which can be exhausting. It’s natural to want to care for your loved one when they need support, but it can lead to compassion fatigue or burnout if you don’t prioritize your own well-being.

So how do you make self-care a priority while also juggling the weight of responsibility and expectation that come with caregiving for a loved one?

Dr. J Don Richardson, Medical Advisor at the Atlas Institute, joined Brian and Laryssa to discuss:

  • how compassion fatigue impacts Veteran Families
  • key signs and symptoms of compassion fatigue
  • self-care strategies for maintaining your own well-being
  • guidance on coping with compassion fatigue, and
  • what the recovery journey can look like.

Compassion fatigue affects many Veteran Families, but it’s important to know there are resources are available for managing and preventing it.

Resources

Veteran Family Virtual Summit 2024

Resources for Families and friends

Perspectives blog — “I love my job” by Laryssa Lamrock

Perspectives blog — “I see you, I am you” by Polliann Maher

Mind Beyond the Mission episode 2 — “And their Families”

Compassion fatigue: Signs, symptoms and how to cope

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MIND BEYOND THE MISSION EPISODE 16: ‘WHEN AM I HIS WIFE?’ EXPLORING COMPASSION FATIGUE WITH DR. J DON RICHARDSON

Brian

You found our podcast. We are Mind Beyond the Mission. This is a podcast about Veterans and their Families, and specifically, mental health. What goes on in our lives, what goes on in our heads. We’re not talking to you as doctors or professionals, we’re talking to you about living with it and what it’s like. Brian McKenna, 19 years in the Canadian Forces. I’m joined by my partner, Laryssa Lamrock.

Laryssa

I’m a Veteran Family member. I’m a proud military brat. My husband served in the military. Proud military mom. We’re really excited about this podcast to delve into issues that are important to the Veteran and Family community.

Brian

Join us as we talk about mental health from the perspective of Veterans and their Families.

Laryssa

Here we are, Brian, once again in these seats. We have a guest with us today which we’re very excited about. I first met Dr. Don Richardson as a clinician at the operational stress injury clinic in London, Ontario. He wears many other hats besides that clinical role, but this is the one that has affected me the most. He always took the time to validate my experience as a Family member. One of his most recent roles is medical advisor to Atlas, and lately we’ve been having a number of conversations about compassion fatigue and Veteran Families.

Brian and I try to host this podcast honestly and without sugarcoating things. Even though I have had this great role working in the field of Veteran and Family mental health, facilitating discussions on the importance of self-care and communication and helping create resources for other Family members, I’d be lying if I said my own life is perfect. For the last year and a half I have struggled with my own compassion fatigue. Compassion fatigue is no joke. It’s thrown a lot off-kilter for me and my Family, and I’m still doing the work to get back on track. I’m really looking forward to this conversation today.

Brian

Don, you’ve worked with us for a bit, but also Don’s the guy that’s had Veterans on his couch. Don’s the guy that’s got some clinical experience in the background too. Actually, before we knew of him, he knew of the Veteran file and had been working with people. One of the questions I have for you is, when we look at compassion fatigue it sometimes sounds like people are fed up with us, these things are draining. At the end of the day I think we need to put our finger on what it is, what it isn’t, and understand a little bit more from there. Don, why don’t you say hi to folks and give us a little background on yourself? First of all, what makes you want to work with the Veteran community?

Dr. J Don Richardson

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate this opportunity to be here this morning. I think I’ve been really fascinated in the work and also specifically what has led me into the Veteran space, I think it’s an excellent question. In my last rotation in my training to become a psychiatrist there was an opportunity to work at National Defense Medical Center, which doesn’t exist today but did at that time, in consultation liaison. That was my first exposure to the military space and military and Veteran space.

I was fascinated by the patient of the Veteran space, especially since most of these individuals were so high functioning before and then something had happened to them where they were now struggling. In my case, I was in the mental health area and really, the possibility of people fully recovering, that was really what drove me to this field.

Also, in comparing it to the civilian side is that in that military context, being on time, being completely motivated to get better also gave me really a good insight on how much Veterans and military members have given to us on the civilian side to our country. This would be a small part that I could actually help those — I don’t want to say what you often hear, help those who have helped us, but it’s really what drove me into this field.

Brian

It’s an interesting statement you made too about people that were in their other roles high functioning and now they’re suffering. One of our colleagues at work, he often compares his previous job in the military, the way he frames it is downhill skiing and doing your taxes at the same time. That was the thought process he had to have to function in that role and then struggles with grocery lists, with just day-to-day functioning, and how do these high-level functioning people have that struggle?

Within that struggle, one of the things is, as we’re talking about today, compassion fatigue and specifically the Family’s experience of it. When we’re talking about that, what is it that they’re experiencing? Are they experiencing an ailment? Is it a symptom? Is it its own standalone problem? What is it as you see it?

Don

One of the big complex areas that you’re raising specifically, compassion fatigue and also you haven’t named it specifically but the whole area of burnout, is that a lot of the — putting on my research hat, is that a lot of the work and understanding has really been in the healthcare sector. Individuals who are providing care to others where there are higher rates of compassion fatigue and burnout.

It’s unfortunate that a lot of the work has not gone on in the area of Family members or caregiver burnout, which is really what you’re talking about today, the impact it’s having on individuals who are caring for a Family member. That’s where there is less work. This is an opportunity to bring this area into the open. When you’re looking at the distinction is that compassion fatigue often is mostly related to taking on a lot of the emotions or the issues of the person you’re caring for, over-investigated in it. The driving force is really what we call almost too much empathy, really focused on the emotion.

When we talk about burnout, it’s that compassion fatigue can lead to burnout, and burnout has to do with the specific roles or the demands of your job. Here specifically in Family members, is unfortunately sometimes when you’re caring for somebody that you care about, like a Family member, it almost becomes your full-time job. It’s about the demands of that and lots of examples of — or taking care of all of the instrumental things a person might need or you might believe they need. It’s that physical emotional exhaustion, and that’s usually when it leads to that type of what we see — similar to what we see in healthcare workers, is that disengagement, that feeling that, okay, I can’t really do anymore.

That’s often accompanied with a lot of either resentment or guilt, but sometimes can occur that we can see similarly in healthcare workers, but we also see it in people who have the lived experience.

Laryssa

Thank you so much there, Don. First just the validation, like for myself when I knew something was off-kilter, and it was just — it was almost like a light switch went off, I’m going to be honest. I was in the, I’m going to say caregiving role in my home, and there were a couple of different layers, or a couple of Family members that I was wanting to support, and then this switch went off. I was like, what is going on?

I started doing some research and just wanted to say, you alluded to the fact that a lot of what is out there relates to people in professional caregiving positions. As a Family member, I couldn’t find something that related to me and to help me identify what I was experiencing. To be honest, because of that lack of specific resources, I still couldn’t tell you if it’s compassion fatigue or burnout.

It’s a complex role, because in the case of let’s say spouses, you’re watching the person you love suffer or struggle and we all want to support our loved ones. You’re shifting from that partnership role, spousal role, into this caregiving piece and it’s hard to know or to shift from one or the other. When am I his wife? When am I his caregiver? It’s very subtle and it’s not something my spouse like — he didn’t intentionally put me in that caregiving position, but it’s just… it was naturally occurring, and we were there before we knew it. Then yes, we’ll go back to guilt and resentment. I think we could spend lots of time with that. Brian?

Brian

Yes. What I’m thinking as you’re talking is that multitasking is a hard thing to do. My idea of it is, if I’m reading emails and brewing coffee at the same time, I’ve taxed out my ability of doing multiple things at once. Emotionally, I don’t know how to do two at once at all. if I’m mad, I can’t be showing interest in something. Is it even possible to be the lover and the caretaker at the same time? Does one just beat the other up internally? I can’t imagine myself being able to simultaneously do those two things. We’ve even talked about, why do you bristle a little bit when someone says “caretaker”? That’s one of the things you’ve explained to me, is I can “take care of,” but caretaker is not my job.

Laryssa

It’s something we’ve talked about with Don as well. I think the reason I bristle at that term is because there is that — just someone calling me a caregiver puts an automatic expectation and responsibility on my shoulders. I took that on, even though for the longest time I kept saying, “I’m not a caregiver, I’m a supporter,” and yet there I was. Don, it’s something that you’ve observed as a clinician from the medical side of things. What’s your observation on how do Family members end up there?

Don

I think that’s really a very fascinating and really a perfect question because that is really one of the distinctions between burnout and compassion fatigue is that we’re talking about burnout as something that’s going to be very gradual as opposed to compassion fatigue, which can occur quite quickly because it’s really your overinvestment in supporting or helping somebody that’s gone through traumatic events.

Unfortunately, and I’ve mentioned that before in other conversations we’ve had, I think in the healthcare profession, physicians and psychologists and clinicians that are supporting Veterans, sometimes we might be also asking a lot from Family members in terms of that caregiving role. Often when we’re trying to support when we call our patient or our client, is that when we’re asking information from those that are caring for them, it’s usually in service of our patients. Rarely do we go the other step and ask the Family member, how are you actually doing? How are you coping?

The information is usually about asking that person, how do you feel your partner or your son or daughter is doing? It’s always in service of the identified patient. I think it’s a wake-up call probably for my profession to maybe look at the impact some of these questions might be having on others.

Brian

It can be scary, too, when you’re looking at it like this is the Family conversation, but looking at it from the Veteran’d eyes, I go see my doctor for an hour every two weeks. I don’t have a problem at the doctor’s office, though. I have a problem at home. I go home and the problem materializes. I go to the doctor, but I can’t live on that couch. I can’t constantly text him with every issue that I’m encountering. I’ve got to take the advice and the tidbits from that hour and go smash through the world and figure it out.

It’s tricky. It’s like you don’t want to burn out the people that are around you. It seems to me almost like, well, the only other option is stick it back inside, then. Where do you want it to go? That’s not the message that we’re putting out, but I can see how that gets absorbed. It’s like, okay, well, I’ve got to express somehow. That’s, I think, the tricky part of it. I also think, when we look at things like compassion fatigue, we look at even separation anxiety to our kids and things like that, for a lot of us, we then look in the mirror and say, “I’m doing this to them. They’re hurt, they’re not hurt from school, I did this,” that could cause us to want to just bury it more. Bury it with a shovel and then you bury the shovel. That’s not what we want.

It’s a tricky bit of business to tell people like, yes, you have to express, but not too much. You’ve got to connect, but don’t overconnect. Yeah, it’s intimidating to try to figure out how do we thread this needle.

Don

I think that’s an excellent example of, theoretically, in the doctor’s office or in the healthcare world is really a place for you to practice what you would need to practice out there. The example is that, what is it that you need to share with describing your doctor or whoever you’re seeing? It’s not necessary that they know everything that goes on in your mind to provide you with the support or part of your road to recovery. There are certain things that they might need to know about what goes on in your mind to best help you.

It often has to deal with — if you can trust, for example — if you can come to see me and trust me with something, then what is it that you could trust with other people out there that you care about and care about you and to what extent that you can do it in a safe manner? Then going back specifically to roles, is there just one individual or are there multiple individuals that you can share part of what you’re struggling with? It’s building that more than one.

Brian

Are you saying then use the doctor essentially to trial the conversations that you’re about to have at home?

Don

Not necessarily practicing what you might or might not say, but sometimes when you’re able to say it to a more neutral body and then think about how it was stated, then that might also help you be able to practice what you want to actually share at home.

Brian

Would it then be fair to say that the reason I didn’t hear that 15 years ago is that our understanding of compassion fatigue, that it exists, that it’s a thing, that it plays out a lot in Veteran Families, that’s new or it’s certainly new to me?

Don

I think having a name for something is probably maybe newer, but I don’t think compassion fatigue is new. It probably existed for many, many years. Also, the social structure of today, if we look at a hundred years ago, might be quite different. Often, here especially in Canada, Veterans are a minority in the civilian population. Most people aren’t Veterans, and that connection people might have had before many years ago where Veterans made up a much larger portion of the population might have had other individuals that they could easily connect to and their spouses might have had other spouses that they could more easily connect to.

There are differences in the social structure today that makes it a little bit harder. I think whether we’re calling it compassion fatigue or burnout are new terms that are naming something that I think, depending on the context, probably existed a long time ago.

Laryssa

I’ve been so looking forward to this conversation because I don’t think we talk about it a lot. As you were saying, Brian, it’s not a new thing, but us talking about it is. I think it’s important for awareness on both sides, I think something that I’m conscious of, and even within my own Family dynamic, is trying to identify my needs and where I’m at without adding extra guilt onto my spouse’s experience. Like you were saying, Brian, “I did this and that’s not how it pans out.” I think if we can bring this conversation to light.

So where I felt it was important to understand about posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), I can tell you the four clusters of symptoms. I can tell you some of the treatment modalities. I educated myself in order to support my spouse. I’m hoping that a Veteran, when they’re at a certain point in their own recovery, because I think for a certain amount of time they need to focus on themselves. But maybe we can start to educate Veterans on what their Families might be experiencing and what their needs are.

Although compassion fatigue is not a diagnosis, I wonder, Don, if you can help us identify I’m going to call them signs and symptoms. I think that’s usually reserved for diagnosis, but just because I can’t find other terms, can you share with us what some signs and symptoms might be when a Family member is experiencing compassion fatigue or burnout?

Don

I think what you’re alluding to, one is, how do we better educate not only the individual or the Veteran who’s in your office but ensuring that information also goes to Family members, because they too are impacted? I think if we look at other areas in medicine, they probably do a better job in inviting and making sure that everyone is aware so that people aren’t taking on additional roles for support. When we’re looking at mostly inviting Family members to be part of the conversation early on in the recovery is probably a good way of possibly preventing or decreasing the impact of compassion fatigue and burnout.

The signs and symptoms, and it’s not really looking at a diagnosis, but when we’re looking at burnout, it’s really being disengaged, that emotional, physical exhaustion. It can occur with a multitude of other issues, problems concentrating, difficulty sleeping, almost being over-invested in the person you’re supporting where you lose yourself, that your primary job now and role is to help the other individual.

Those are areas that blur the line because, with compassion fatigue, which is often called vicarious trauma, is that in your mind, you’re always thinking about that individual, and then you might even start to develop some of the similar signs and symptoms that person might have, which is so, so common. If somebody’s super hyper-vigilant, checking and scanning, making sure that the doors are locked and closed, the curtains are down, and checking to see who’s in the driveway, who’s not in the driveway, you can imagine Family members around will start becoming a little bit hyper-vigilant because they too think, oh, okay, I’m going to check.

Being super, super sensitive to sudden noise and sound, that hyperarousal and being easily startled is so, so common. Kids, when they’re coming in from school or from hockey and they’re dropping their hockey bag and slamming doors, that can be very triggering for somebody that has PTSD. Very quickly, the kids, spouses become super attuned to say, “I don’t want the door to slam. I don’t want this noise.” If they hear a noise, everybody becomes startled. Those are some of the symptoms that we — I’m saying symptoms, but those are some of the changes in behaviours.

Those individuals don’t have — we don’t want to be saying that they have PTSD, but they develop that hypervigilance and being easily startled. Sometimes people take on the dreams and nightmares if they hear about the traumatic events people have experienced.

Brian

Don, we call it snow plowing. What we often see is — take, for example, if at certain times where if I’m agitated, there are certain places I don’t want to sit when I’m in a new environment. This often comes out in restaurants because restaurants are just full of other people and unless you go there all the time, a new experience to you. It happens in other places all the time. For me, though, it doesn’t happen everywhere I go. Today I’m having a great day. I know that I’m hyper-vigilant, but I don’t feel anything else going on today. I could probably be the guy with my back to the window today.

But what happens is the people around us get used to the, I’m going to call it the symptoms at their extreme. Then they almost become more aggressive in finding those triggers out there for us than we do. I’ve seen that occur in — we call it the snowplow effect. In other words, I need that sometimes, but then someone else would come, “No, he needs this all the time. That chair has got to move. That window has got to be open.” It’s interesting to watch that pan out. What I wanted to ask you, though, is, so compassion fatigue, if we have untreated compassion fatigue and it festers, what does it become then? Is that where we get resentment?

Don

I think resentment might be one of them. I think, Laryssa, you mentioned also feelings of guilt. Compassion fatigue can lead to burnout, and burnout is that physical and emotional exhaustion. That’s where the disengagement starts to occur. Very similar that you would see in other helping professions is that, in the past, you might’ve been over-engaged, but then there’s just so much the person can give, or a clinician can give, and then they become less engaged or completely disengaged. Which is probably also part of survival.

Laryssa

We were alluding to the fact before, communication is always at the core of all of these podcast episodes. I need to practice that too. Clinicians may be communicating with their clients, Veterans communicating with their Families, Families communicating with the Veteran. That was something that I was getting to before. We don’t want to create guilt or blame. It just is. How can Families mutually support each other?

If someone feels like they might be experiencing compassion fatigue, they’re relating to some of what we’re talking about today, feeling disengaged or for me, sometimes I feel a little bit numb or, yes, that physical exhaustion, then the guilt comes after because I have prided myself on being a good support for my spouse. Right now I’m probably not. Then you feel guilty. If folks are identifying that, what’s the next steps for them? If they feel they’re in this space, what would you suggest?

Don

The first part, as you mentioned already, is identifying that, you know what, am I there already or am I getting there? Sometimes it’s really making that first step to say, you know what, I think I’m taking on too much because I’m losing myself. And then what supports are available? I know Laryssa and you have talked a lot about the whole area of self-care, but what is it that you can do to take back part of your life and get back to some of the roles so that your role is now, using the words that we’ve used a lot, your primary role now is not going to be just a caregiver, but maybe also a partner?

What are the small things? At the previous Family Summit, we had excellent examples where for one person, it was taking five, I think she mentioned five minutes to herself, that was a reminder that, okay, this is just for me. Those are small steps. Obviously if you’re really struggling seek professional help, but it’s — I’m not sure that’s where I would start, but I always have that as an opportunity. Then really, if it’s available, and it usually is across Canada, is really the benefit of peer support. Finding somebody else who’s struggling also with similar things and finding out what has helped them is probably the most powerful way to move yourself towards a more healthy balance.

Brian

I get a bit of a chuckle sometimes when I hear the answer of more communication. It’s like, yeah, absolutely. Often I find, even at a work meeting sometimes, when people suggest more communication, sometimes it’s code for “I don’t know what to do about this.” A meeting often ends with the solution, oh, there needs to be more communication. I’m sitting there going, that means we spent an hour and you guys haven’t actually arrived at what the problem is. But that’s my mind wanting to black and white everything. I want to see, where’s the button to fix this? What lever do I pull?

Why I think communication is actually the right answer is because it alludes to this is ongoing. This must get maintained the whole way through. I’m even thinking in compassion fatigue, examining the words a little bit, it doesn’t mean the person doesn’t want to be there. In fact, they’re tired of the effects of their care, if that makes sense. You still have the compassion. The love is still there. You’re just beat up to some degree and can’t express it right now because something’s happening to you too. That’s Brian’s answer as to what I think I’m looking at when I’m looking at compassion fatigue.

Laryssa

I just really appreciate you identifying that, Brian, that it’s not that you stop caring. I think that’s where the guilt piece comes in because you do care and you do want to support, but you just don’t have it in you. I really appreciate you just acknowledging that. I think that’s important for folks to hear, particularly if you are a Veteran, or maybe sometimes it’s the Family member. Maybe the Family member, in addition, has a physical ailment where the Veteran actually has to step in as a caregiver or supporter. I think it’s just, yeah, about that mutual understanding piece.

Brian

I wonder sometimes too, like there are so many different ways that a person in your position can help the Veteran community. You can be dealing with your spouse. Then you could also answer some emails at work because that’s the Veteran community. You can phone one of your peers because that’s the spouse of a Veteran, that’s the Veteran community. I’ve found compassion fatigue towards other Veterans myself. I’ve reached points where I’ve told them, whether it’s by Facebook message or whatever, no more calls. Don’t call me for another week. I’m done with helping other people right now. I never meant I don’t love you. I didn’t mean don’t call me the week after next. I meant I’m fried.

Laryssa

We talked vaguely about self-care, and I think that’s a good segue into it. One of the things that we’re suggesting is taking that five minutes for yourself doing some self-care. I think more folks I talked to recently start to bristle at the term “self-care,” I think because it’s a catchphrase. I don’t think we really delve into it. I think there’s some assumption that self-care means like a manicure or pedicure.

Brian

There’s more to it, though. Do what it means in the army? It means no one’s coming for you for a long time. When we say apply self-care, what we mean is we’re pushing on and leaving you here.

Laryssa

Oh, nice.

Brian

Someone else is coming maybe. We hope.

Laryssa

[laughs] Okay so, “Good luck to you!”

Brian

It’s actually got a rough edge.

Laryssa

I’d like to explore that a little bit more, Don, some of your observations or recommendations for self-care. Something that Brian just touched on was setting boundaries. That’s a little bit less superficial than just a manicure or pedicure. That time to yourself certainly is a component of it. You alluded to peer support, which you’re singing my song. Of course, clinical support if you need it, talking to your doctor. What are some other ways that people can practice, I guess we’re going to call it self-care right now because I don’t have another word?

Don

I think self-care is probably a word that’s very similar to, Brian, as you alluded to already, communication. It’s often stated a lot, but very hard to completely practice and understand. Most of the work that looks specifically at self-care and then the whole area of how you set boundaries has been in the healthcare sector. In those in the helping profession, teaching people boundary-setting when you’re helping clients who have gone through a lot of trauma, how to set boundaries there and then limit when can you say no or when organizing how much you can actually give.

As hard as that is, in the Family situation, it’s much, much more challenging because it’s not as if you can leave your work at home. Your work is at home. Very, very different scenario.

Brian

Is there some part of this too, Don, where self-care, again, doesn’t mean “handle it on your own?” In some ways I think what it ought to mean is, “Hey, you are a patient too. To get you back better, we got to take some time and do some stuff.” It doesn’t mean just give yourself a time out.

Don

I think you’re bringing really good examples that self-care first part is really acknowledging that you also need some time and you need your own support. All of that is that first. Whether it’s five minutes, it doesn’t mean that you’re going to the spa for half a day, but for some people, that might be an opportunity, but for most people taking a half day for anything is probably way too much. But it’s taking those moments, acknowledging the support you might need, and who can you reach out to that would bring you back to who your true identity shown within that context.

Brian

In a utopian world, Don, there’s no budgets and no limits. You got a hundred million bucks and a thousand staff. What would be the first thing you would start to do to do something about compassion fatigue? What do you think the next thing is we need to do?

Don

Unlimited budget! That’s a full excellent dream to have. Really —

Brian

You don’t have that, by the way. You have limits.

Don

[laughs] Limits, sure. I think it’s really education and knowledge dissemination. Getting people to be aware of what the impact it is of caring for somebody that has a chronic condition, that’s in the Family context, and engaging Family members in the process of recovery. I think those are probably the most ideal areas. Making them part of the solution rather than reinforcing that their primary role is to take care of someone else.

Brian

What do you think the layman’s version of that is? What I think I’m hearing, or maybe I want to hear is, if I feel like I am getting under the compassion fatigue bubble here, is it do something that I like? Like I’m a barbecue guy. I don’t think just taking five minutes to go do something that I enjoy is going to charge my battery all the way back to where it needs to be. What’s your sense of that?

Laryssa

Just from my own experience in the last while, I think number one for me was giving myself permission to say I’m not doing okay and giving myself permission to put myself first. I think that is number one, identifying that. Then, as Don was suggesting, I first needed… you know me. I’m analytical and a process-minded person. I needed to do some research, so I jumped online and first needed to know, is this what’s happening for me? Then what do I do about it? Sure, barbecuing is good, but I think each person needs to identify, where do I need to start?

For lots of folks that are in caregiver positions, they put themselves lower on the list. I’m going to use the stereotypical Family. I know that Families look very different, but let’s say a spouse, there’s children in the home, you have a loved one with a mental health injury. Your doctor’s appointments are the last ones you’re making. Your dental appointments are the last ones that are booked, and it might be tagged on just because you’re taking the kids there, whatever the case is. I think identifying what’s going on for you, and sometimes it’s even just starting at the basics and building from there. I don’t know. That was how I tackled it, I guess.

Brian

I find I need some actual, not just time. Time to me could also be staring at the clock and just stewing and getting more frustrated. I need disengagement. When I feel I’m getting at the edge, actually telling people in my life that are causing me to get more burnt out, if you will, telling them to stop, if I take a day or two off it just means two days from now I’m going to pick up right where I left off and there was a gap. I need to actually disengage. For me, that can be hunting trips with friends. Hunting trips with friends often involve zero hunting, but what they do involve is getting away from the machines, getting away from the city and actually clearing my mind, not just taking time.

Laryssa

Can be hard to do.

Don

I think, Brian, that you’re really highlighting part of what you’re describing, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s similar to the helping profession, supporting other people and knowing how to set appropriate boundaries and having these key points to say, “Okay, this is how much I can give and this is when I need to recharge my batteries,” as you’re describing, and doing it that is actually planned ahead. Sometimes people are waiting too late, and part of it might be in the Veteran culture of leave no man behind, so people keep going and going. It wouldn’t surprise me that’s a similar way that Family members and spouses also feel too.

Brian

So what do you think? We solved it all? You’re fine now, right? Problem’s gone.

Laryssa

[chuckles] I’m good to go. Don, thank you so much for the insights. I feel like we could delve a lot more into this, but I’m hoping this creates some conversations and some awareness for people. I guess I use this word a lot, but just validation of their experience going, “Oh, okay, I’m not just cold and callous when I’m separating from my spouse for that time away.” I just really appreciate your time today.

Brian

Don, thanks for joining us on yet again another episode of Mind Beyond the Mission.

Don

Thank you so much for this opportunity.